tell me you’re a coward without telling me
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@Athena love it. is it worth mentioning a third reason, that LLM code can have unintended side effects that are harder to detect because the person using the LLM is so reliant on it?
@mnemonica I agree with this reason strongly but omitted it from the points listed for brevity and simplicity. As much as it’s correct, I think listing off every problem with language models just gets way too long and gives too many footholds to debate about parts that ultimately don’t matter and I think this is something that ought to be simple.
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@mnemonica I agree with this reason strongly but omitted it from the points listed for brevity and simplicity. As much as it’s correct, I think listing off every problem with language models just gets way too long and gives too many footholds to debate about parts that ultimately don’t matter and I think this is something that ought to be simple.
@Athena makes sense.
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena This is how any great idea ends tainted by the will of power. Speaking frankly, I'm not surprised, I've already seen it happening.
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i wrote a thing https://parthen.online/notes/rust-llm-rfc/
@Athena I'd love to see that become the policy, but it's clear they don't want that to happen, reasons be damned.
I wonder if there will be enough people from the community who _will_ fork Rust and move on. I'd support that. I don't want AI slop on my computer.
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@Athena oh my god it's the canned libertarian "what if nothing mattered but the thign i want" take
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
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@Athena Ah good. Now I don't need to learn Rust.
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gettin’ myself banned from the rust github https://github.com/rust-lang/rust-forge/pull/1040#issuecomment-4460618392
@Athena "If you trust our judgement for creating a compiler that works safely and reliably, I ask you to also trust our judgement that we can allow LLMs in a way that doesn't affect that safety and reliability. " excuse me WHAT?
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i wrote a thing https://parthen.online/notes/rust-llm-rfc/
@Athena (whoops this was supposed to be threaded on my 'sociopaths' reply) FWIW my off-fedi followup snark: https://bsky.app/profile/nothings.bsky.social/post/3mlwge3244c27
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
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@Athena Well, that sure is one way to kill a language... jesus fucking christ.
Guess we're all back to C++ with memory protection extensions then.
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@Athena@chaosfem.tw And yet that policy actually misses an important use case for LLMs: non-native speakers (or people with dyslexia) using them to "proofread" and fix mistakes (orthography, grammar, style) in their own text. Basically machine translation from English to English.
Having to post the original English text would defeat the purpose of not wanting "to look like a moron" who misspells every third word.
Obviously this use case is rather limited, and as a user, one must then verify one still "owns" the resulting text, and that it remained in one's own general style - just more correct. And of course pre-LLM tools exist for the same purpose, and it also applies vice versa - some tools may use an LLM internally and the user may not even know that. As an example, right now I don't know how the grammar checker of LibreOffice works, and as a user I should not need to care how it is internally implemented, provided it fulfills the necessary invariants (primarily to only fix concrete issues in the text, and to not rewrite the entire thing in someone or something else's style).@divVerent @Athena spellcheck has been around forever and non-LLM-based ones are a lot less likely to turn misspellings - or *unusual, correctly-spelled words* - into other superficially similar word-forms that end up changing the message
(although i still remember MS Word's grammar checker always telling me to use "form" instead of "from" where i obviously meant the latter so it wasn't exactly good then either)
> I should not need to care how
this is the kind of user known as "part of the problem" -
i wrote a thing https://parthen.online/notes/rust-llm-rfc/
I cannot believe I have to say this but DON’T HARASS, THREATEN OR ESPECIALLY STALK ANYONE OVER THIS. Or any programming language shit. that’s not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you people.
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i wrote a thing https://parthen.online/notes/rust-llm-rfc/
@Athena honestly, this feels like an excellent first draft to be starting from, and I'd be pretty wary of any proposal that strays from the spirit here.
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I cannot believe I have to say this but DON’T HARASS, THREATEN OR ESPECIALLY STALK ANYONE OVER THIS. Or any programming language shit. that’s not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you people.
@Athena unless someone is literally stalking sam altman -- and we _all_ know they're not -- they're taking out their anger on the wrong target, even if that target is the biggest LLM advocate that ever walked the earth
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@Athena LLM people saw the scene in Snowerpiercer where the kid is part of the engine and were like "yeah, let's do that".
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
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@Athena Die Linke Baden-Württemberg recently banned internal usage of A.I. altogether ..for now.
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
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@Athena "Friendliness" is a choice for categorizing projects and their moral and ethical stance on a heated issue.
"War-friendly"
"Disease-friendly"
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I cannot believe I have to say this but DON’T HARASS, THREATEN OR ESPECIALLY STALK ANYONE OVER THIS. Or any programming language shit. that’s not okay. What the fuck is wrong with you people.
@Athena What if I explain to TÜV that LLM tainted compilers should make everything they compile be considered LLM output for the purposes of their review and V&V requirements. I'm sure everyone using rust for safety critical firmware would love the extra scrutiny (and associated costs).
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i wrote a thing https://parthen.online/notes/rust-llm-rfc/
@Athena
typos
resonsible -> responsible
dicatate -> dictate -
@rl_dane @reiddragon @Athena pretty much they’re equal enough wrt eugenics, but TESCREALists often “excel” in more than one field
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@stag oh I read the context paragraphs; I also super disagree that they make it any better
