Have you been asked by a medical provider recently for consent to have an "AI" scribe record your visit?

[meltedcheese@c.im]

@randocity @M3L155A @emilymbender For now, they are separate. What could possibly go wrong if they become part of automating the workflow between providers and insurance com? Quite a bit from the patients POV.

[retreival9096@hachyderm.io]

@emilymbender @janef0421

That's it! Thanks, and clearly you've already seen it. And I miss remembered where I saw it.

[retreival9096@hachyderm.io]

@emilymbender @janef0421

I've just passed your paper and Dr Gooch's along to the most recent Dr to ask me about using an AI scribe. Give them some heads up, as well as data when responding to management.

[everydaymoggie@sfba.social]

I didn't notice any visible recording devices in the office. At the time I assumed this meant the recording capability was just software running on their existing medical computers, which would mean there was no simple way to see if it was recording you or not.

@Kierkegaanks @starluna @WhiteCatTamer @emilymbender

[starluna@mastodon.social]

@EverydayMoggie @Kierkegaanks @WhiteCatTamer @emilymbender That is definitely what makes all of these tools problematic. I would like to believe that somebody in risk management has raised this flag, at least for the California medical facilities, but so many of those people are also captured by the AI hype that they've lost all of their critical faculties.

[bunny_jane@plush.city]

@LPhilpott @emilymbender "Now, six weeks later, I was reading someone else’s account of a consultation I had conducted — and I couldn’t recall the patient clearly enough to reconstruct what had been left out."

This part struck me because I hadn't even considered the problems trying to use notes you didn't write. Its an extra chance for misunderstanding.

And the doc said the notes are accurate earlier in the piece, but here he admits he can't be sure about that.

[retreival9096@hachyderm.io]

@forestine @emilymbender

Guilting you is not a good sign. I clearly don't know all the facts, but trust your feelings and don't let someone pressure you.

You might send copies of Dr. Bender's and Dr Gooch's (elsewhere in this thread) essays to him and suggest you are trying to help him with his workload by not letting him get sucked into "AI" hype.

[moira@mastodon.murkworks.net]

@emilymbender Yes, and I certainly decline. Fortunately, I have a good relationship with my GP, so it hasn't been an issue so far.

[p__x@mastodon.social]

@emilymbender

Frankly, I'm surprised & **disappointed** by your eagerness to jump to conclusions and make biased inferences. Eg: "an AI scribe will change how physicians speak", but *character limits don't impact how ppl write here*. Sets how seriously I should take this.

My inference: you've had minimal input from actual providers familiar w/ the app (point #4 and 7 were dead giveaways) or who spent >10,000 hours writing notes (even #9 seems to be from a non-provider).

No thank you.

[kelleynnn@mas.to]

@countablenewt @emilymbender For longer than the technology has actually existed, I'll bet

[countablenewt@mastodon.social]

@kelleynnn @emilymbender Not exactly sure what you mean there

non-deterministic language models for voice recognition have existed at least since the 90s

[kelleynnn@mas.to]

@countablenewt @emilymbender What I "exactly" mean is that you're trying to troll and shame the OP, and you're probably distorting the actual technology and history to do it--for example, by insinuating that the problematic tech under discussion is really nothing new. You asked for blowback, you got some.

[kelleynnn@mas.to]

@countablenewt @emilymbender Why tf am I wasting time on you? Bye

[countablenewt@mastodon.social]

@kelleynnn @emilymbender I'm being very specific with "non-deterministic language models for voice recognition"

Here's an IEEE paper on exactly what I'm referencing from *1995*
ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/479408

[jbluespruce@mstdn.social]

@emilymbender Excellent post. I worked for many years in healthcare. I know firsthand the incredible pressures on providers to find the time they need to give high-quality care while completing all of their administrative tasks. So I get why these AI tools are attractive. I have consented to have providers use them in my care. But I won’t any longer. The problems you describe are serious & potentially dangerous. I appreciate the perspective that documenting is part of care.

[countablenewt@mastodon.social]

@kelleynnn @emilymbender genuinely unsure of what you think I'm trying to "pull" here

But like if you've ever used speech recognition either on your phone or via a tool like Dragon (which is what most clinicians use) you've almost definitely used this tech before

And, yes, it would fall under the term "AI" and operates in a manner rather similar to something like an LLM, albiet at a much smaller scale and for a specialized purpose

[maggiejk@zeroes.ca]

@emilymbender I appreciate this information. My PCP is part of Concord Hospital in NH and he asked me at my last visit if I was ok with it.

I asked if Elon Musk or any other fascist would have access to it and he laughed and said he wouldn’t use it if it did. He claimed it’s only in their internal system so I said ok.

But don’t the providers prefer the human scribe because they also serve as a chaperone/witness?

[maggiejk@zeroes.ca]

@jrdepriest @emilymbender I actually suspect that Dartmouth Hitchcock in New Hampshire does it without asking. A couple years ago I looked at the notes after a gynecology visit and some of the things she said I said were accurate but the specific words she used were weird.

Like it said “patient states that these symptoms began when she was a little girl”. I never use “little girl” when describing myself as a child. I said “kid”. Maybe I’m being overly suspicious but it seems like a computer at a women’s health visit would be more likely to change “kid” to “little girl” than a grown ass gynecologist would.