I don't know who needs to hear this, but if you're yelling at a person on Fedi for not using #AltText, stop.
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@Jourei
At least once have I just not posted something because describing the image in any meaningful way would've been quite a task.
Though nowadays I'll post it anyway, perhaps I should call in helpers in those cases in the future.
I could post lots of pictures that I've made myself, maybe several a week. Instead, I haven't posted any since mid-2024.
I, too, refuse to post any image that doesn't have descriptions (two of them for each one of my original images) which are up to my own constantly rising standards. But these standards mean that even a fairly simple image may require several hours to one or two days to describe and explain.
In fact, I have been working on the descriptions of a series of avatar portraits for about a year and a half. So far, only the common preamble for four images and the individual long description for one of them are written. Distilling an optimal alt-text from them will be difficult because recent discoveries had me lower my personal alt-text character limit from 1,500 to 512, and I haven't even managed to put one together that doesn't exceed 1,500 characters.
And that's for avatar portraits with a neutral white background. Imagine the effort necessary for a landscape or a cityscape or something like that. So much about it being done in 10 seconds.
I recall finding a beautifully built, highly detailed harbour scene. It didn't even have anything in it that'd trigger anyone, I guess, so I deemed it safe enough to post. But I found it outright impossible to properly describe within a reasonable amount of time and with a reasonable effort. I ended up choosing a much different scene that still ended up taking me two full days to describe in the long description plus the morning of the third day to write an alt-text.
To be honest, I avoid having certain elements in my pictures now, such as vehicles and buildings unless they're very simple.
CC: @
🅻🅸🅲🅴 (
)
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMetai always alt text but i never write novels
"a skiff on choppy waters with dark clouds in the distance"
it's fine
if you're going to hold yourself to the standard of transmitting the transcendental of an image, i think you're going too hard on yourself
the issue before us is accessibility. that's a fine and noble goal. more lofty goals may be pursued by some, and that's going above and beyond and is laudatory
but it's nothing that can be called a standard of behavior
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@benroyce @alice @alexadeswift
Did we just become best friends.mp4
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Basically telling other people how they should be using Mastodon is not cool unless they are violating some instance rule.
You always have the option of muting them or blocking them so you don't have to endure whatever offense you perceive they are perpetrating.
Now, fully realize telling people not to tell people how to use Mastodon is kind of telling people how to use Mastodon. So it's a conundrum, but generally agree with Alice. Please don't be a Mastodon HOA enforcer.
@Mastodon MigrationBasically telling other people how they should be using Mastodon is not cool unless they are violating some instance rule.
As, by the way, is telling Fediverse users who are not on Mastodon to use whatever they use instead like Mastodon users are expected to use Mastodon.Please don't be a Mastodon HOA enforcer.
Especially since the alt-text police of the Mastodon HOA have much higher alt-text and image description minimum standards than blind or visually-impaired people. And they seem to be raising their standards further and further.
I always try my best to be way ahead of anyone's image description minimum standards, also in order to demonstrate to the Mastodon HOA that I'm not a lazy bum, and that I do try hard to describe my images properly. For my own original images, this means that I have to describe each one of them twice, with a fairly short description in the alt-text and a much longer one in the post itself.
This, however, clashes with the Mastodon HOA, too, because they also enforce Mastodon's default 500-character limit Fediverse-wide by generously blocking everyone whom they catch exceeding it at first strike.
CC: @🅻🅸🅲🅴 ()
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #CharacterLimit #CharacterLimits #CharacterLimitMeta #CWCharacterLimitMeta #500Characters #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #AltTextPolice #MastodonHOA -
I don't know who needs to hear this, but if you're yelling at a person on Fedi for not using #AltText, stop. Please.
Should you use alt-text? Yes!
Should you boost posts without alt-text? No!
Should you yell at companies and bots who don't use alt-text? Fuck yeah!
Should you try your best to make Fedi a more accessible, and safe place for everyone—including those who have trouble writing alt-text? Of course.
Should you mention @altbot or #Alt4Me *occasionally* so folx know they're both wonderful tools that can help make Fedi a more inclusive place? It would be impolite not to.
But—and let me make this clear—don't be a dick to folx who forget alt-text, or who have trouble writing it for whatever reason; it's not very punk of you.
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@divVerent did I ever imply you should be anything other than kind and inclusive to humans?
@alice Sorry, I probably misunderstood you. I thought you were putting down a clear rule to never, ever hit the boost button on a post without alt-text, or one is a super horrible bad person nobody ever should be 100 kilometers within. That is going too far for me; instead, I would weigh the factors:
- Is it worth boosting _despite_ lacking alt text?
- Is the image even important to the message?
- Will I respond anyway (in which case I can e.g. put sufficient text to explain the image while at it).So basically I do not think this should be a cold hard rule like the others in your list seem to be. Can we maybe agree that you actually meant all those more in the sense of RFC 2119:
3. SHOULD This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there
may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a
particular item, but the full implications must be understood and
carefully weighed before choosing a different course.In that case, of course, my entire objection is moot.
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@benroyce @alice @alexadeswift
Did we just become best friends.mp4
@miclgael @alice @alexadeswift
no best friends happens after we trade 4 barbed withering insults then smile in appreciation and pat each other on the back
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@Jourei
At least once have I just not posted something because describing the image in any meaningful way would've been quite a task.
Though nowadays I'll post it anyway, perhaps I should call in helpers in those cases in the future.
I could post lots of pictures that I've made myself, maybe several a week. Instead, I haven't posted any since mid-2024.
I, too, refuse to post any image that doesn't have descriptions (two of them for each one of my original images) which are up to my own constantly rising standards. But these standards mean that even a fairly simple image may require several hours to one or two days to describe and explain.
In fact, I have been working on the descriptions of a series of avatar portraits for about a year and a half. So far, only the common preamble for four images and the individual long description for one of them are written. Distilling an optimal alt-text from them will be difficult because recent discoveries had me lower my personal alt-text character limit from 1,500 to 512, and I haven't even managed to put one together that doesn't exceed 1,500 characters.
And that's for avatar portraits with a neutral white background. Imagine the effort necessary for a landscape or a cityscape or something like that. So much about it being done in 10 seconds.
I recall finding a beautifully built, highly detailed harbour scene. It didn't even have anything in it that'd trigger anyone, I guess, so I deemed it safe enough to post. But I found it outright impossible to properly describe within a reasonable amount of time and with a reasonable effort. I ended up choosing a much different scene that still ended up taking me two full days to describe in the long description plus the morning of the third day to write an alt-text.
To be honest, I avoid having certain elements in my pictures now, such as vehicles and buildings unless they're very simple.
CC: @🅻🅸🅲🅴 ()
#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta@jupiter_rowland that seems...excessive.
Like, I regularly get shout-outs from @alttexthalloffame, and folx in the @AltAfterDark community for my alt-text, and it rarely exceeds a few paragraphs (if I'm going full-on #AccessibilityIsHotAF and posting an erotic short story as alt-text). Normally it's only a few sentences, tops—enough for folx to experience the relevant parts and vibe of the image.
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@miclgael @alice @alexadeswift
no best friends happens after we trade 4 barbed withering insults then smile in appreciation and pat each other on the back
@benroyce @alice @alexadeswift
Yeah? Well - nice avatar and I love seeing your toots come up on my timeline
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I don't know who needs to hear this, but if you're yelling at a person on Fedi for not using #AltText, stop. Please.
Should you use alt-text? Yes!
Should you boost posts without alt-text? No!
Should you yell at companies and bots who don't use alt-text? Fuck yeah!
Should you try your best to make Fedi a more accessible, and safe place for everyone—including those who have trouble writing alt-text? Of course.
Should you mention @altbot or #Alt4Me *occasionally* so folx know they're both wonderful tools that can help make Fedi a more inclusive place? It would be impolite not to.
But—and let me make this clear—don't be a dick to folx who forget alt-text, or who have trouble writing it for whatever reason; it's not very punk of you.
@alice @altbot I never used #AltText in my post.
. Why we need #AltText for a simple image like I'm wearing white t-shirt 
red cap 🧢 with black hair & sitting on chair. #AltText should be written for very complicated stuff. I also noticed that almost every person on Mastodon mention detailed text about profile picture
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@benroyce @alice @alexadeswift
Yeah? Well - nice avatar and I love seeing your toots come up on my timeline
@miclgael @alice @alexadeswift
oh yeah well may your every meet with Malenia, Blade Of Miquella result in an easy win
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@miclgael @alice @alexadeswift
oh yeah well may your every meet with Malenia, Blade Of Miquella result in an easy win
@benroyce @alice @alexadeswift
They always do!
((as long as multiple high level players join in and do the bulk of the work))
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I don't know who needs to hear this, but if you're yelling at a person on Fedi for not using #AltText, stop. Please.
Should you use alt-text? Yes!
Should you boost posts without alt-text? No!
Should you yell at companies and bots who don't use alt-text? Fuck yeah!
Should you try your best to make Fedi a more accessible, and safe place for everyone—including those who have trouble writing alt-text? Of course.
Should you mention @altbot or #Alt4Me *occasionally* so folx know they're both wonderful tools that can help make Fedi a more inclusive place? It would be impolite not to.
But—and let me make this clear—don't be a dick to folx who forget alt-text, or who have trouble writing it for whatever reason; it's not very punk of you.
@alice For many years I had issues writing descriptions after a TBI, worsened brain fog from long COVID, that has only really recently started to abate. I felt like I was being punished for not being able to write alt text, even though I was doing my best. I had to basically rely on a few friends to help me on Fedi, because Alt4Me was sometimes unreliable.
I felt like I was being blamed for something that genuinely was not my fault. I felt like people often didn't even believe me, either. I got a ton of ableist shit tossed my way.
The thing is, I lived with a deafblind roommate for years. I know how important this is.
It got to the point I just... quit posting images sometimes... cause I'd have days where it was like, "I can't write a description for this, and my friends who'd write a description aren't around rn."
And tbh I never want to feel like that again.
I hope others read what you wrote and understand. I get not boosting posts without alt text... just... wish people would realise... it's usually not even malice, it's just forgetfulness, or often inability.
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@benroyce @alice @alexadeswift
They always do!
((as long as multiple high level players join in and do the bulk of the work))
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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@alice For many years I had issues writing descriptions after a TBI, worsened brain fog from long COVID, that has only really recently started to abate. I felt like I was being punished for not being able to write alt text, even though I was doing my best. I had to basically rely on a few friends to help me on Fedi, because Alt4Me was sometimes unreliable.
I felt like I was being blamed for something that genuinely was not my fault. I felt like people often didn't even believe me, either. I got a ton of ableist shit tossed my way.
The thing is, I lived with a deafblind roommate for years. I know how important this is.
It got to the point I just... quit posting images sometimes... cause I'd have days where it was like, "I can't write a description for this, and my friends who'd write a description aren't around rn."
And tbh I never want to feel like that again.
I hope others read what you wrote and understand. I get not boosting posts without alt text... just... wish people would realise... it's usually not even malice, it's just forgetfulness, or often inability.
@alice Incidentally I have no idea why this has begun to abate, they told me that this shit would probably never get better. *shrugs*
Neuroplasticity is wild.
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@PhoenixSerenity @alice @altbot *coughs loudly in the direction of a specific ex-netscape developer*
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@alice @altbot given that the majority of people are on the feddy because they have a problem with authority or people trying to control how they use things, it is literally the exactly wrong demographic to try to yell at people to change their behavior. Instead, appeal to their anti-authoritarian tendencies by pointing out how shitty mainstream social media spaces are to disabled people and you know this cool way people can stick it to Zuckerberg and Elon, and it just takes 10 seconds to do.
@JoscelynTransient @alice @altbot *given that the majority of people on feddy are people, that is human beings with soul and brains and stuff.
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@PhoenixSerenity @alice @altbot and the ones who deliberately don't because they think it provides training data to LLMs
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@alice Sorry, I probably misunderstood you. I thought you were putting down a clear rule to never, ever hit the boost button on a post without alt-text, or one is a super horrible bad person nobody ever should be 100 kilometers within. That is going too far for me; instead, I would weigh the factors:
- Is it worth boosting _despite_ lacking alt text?
- Is the image even important to the message?
- Will I respond anyway (in which case I can e.g. put sufficient text to explain the image while at it).So basically I do not think this should be a cold hard rule like the others in your list seem to be. Can we maybe agree that you actually meant all those more in the sense of RFC 2119:
3. SHOULD This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there
may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a
particular item, but the full implications must be understood and
carefully weighed before choosing a different course.In that case, of course, my entire objection is moot.
@divVerent I never boost images/videos without alt-text, and I don't think others should either. In fact, I have non-alt-texted posts hidden behind CWs, so I don't even see them (kinda like blind folx).
But if I do get one brought to my attention (like when folx mention me), I'll ask them or altbot to add alt-text first, before I boost it.
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I don't know who needs to hear this, but if you're yelling at a person on Fedi for not using #AltText, stop. Please.
Should you use alt-text? Yes!
Should you boost posts without alt-text? No!
Should you yell at companies and bots who don't use alt-text? Fuck yeah!
Should you try your best to make Fedi a more accessible, and safe place for everyone—including those who have trouble writing alt-text? Of course.
Should you mention @altbot or #Alt4Me *occasionally* so folx know they're both wonderful tools that can help make Fedi a more inclusive place? It would be impolite not to.
But—and let me make this clear—don't be a dick to folx who forget alt-text, or who have trouble writing it for whatever reason; it's not very punk of you.
@alice@lgbtqia.space Software like Sharkey does a particularly good job of handling this on the poster's end by just notifying them that they missed adding alt text, so when they post images they know they are posting without alt text.
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I don't know who needs to hear this, but if you're yelling at a person on Fedi for not using #AltText, stop. Please.
Should you use alt-text? Yes!
Should you boost posts without alt-text? No!
Should you yell at companies and bots who don't use alt-text? Fuck yeah!
Should you try your best to make Fedi a more accessible, and safe place for everyone—including those who have trouble writing alt-text? Of course.
Should you mention @altbot or #Alt4Me *occasionally* so folx know they're both wonderful tools that can help make Fedi a more inclusive place? It would be impolite not to.
But—and let me make this clear—don't be a dick to folx who forget alt-text, or who have trouble writing it for whatever reason; it's not very punk of you.
@alice @altbot I yell at people using slop generated alt text when it doesn't actually do the job of being alt text. I once saw alt text for an image that had a bunch of cross gravestones like the Master of Puppets album art and the alt text was literally just a bunch of repeating plus signs. I'm not sure how that helps anyone.
