PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.
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Lots of insults, zero facts or arguments
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@freediverx @aral @element Let's talk some more about China - I happen to know a little bit about this country from my personal experience of living there for quite a long time. Capital in China is clearly subordinated to the decisions of the Communist Party. There is simply no way that pure "capital" will give anyone political power there. In the contrary, there are many examples of successful "capitalists" being removed from any political influence just because the Party said so.
@mpsi @aral @element
Something they should be commended for. I don’t support any degree of authoritarianism or suppression of civil liberties, but the Chinese people seem to have enjoyed enormous improvements to their standard of living and quality of life. And I don’t recall China employing gunboat diplomacy like the US. -
@Stomata @aral @element @precariousmind Who made your laptop? Who made the parts in your laptop?
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@kravietz
those alternatives make no sense, but I guess you already know it
TBH I don't know when you can start saying france is fascist (US is falling more blattantly, even though our gov follow them at every step)
what france is though is plain and simple : colonialist and white supremacist (or tries to be at least), and I can't see how taking their money isn't helping crushing humanitarian views, from domestic or international point of view (think palestine...)Interesting, so whose money would you be keen to take? Chinese? Russian? Iranian? Venezuelan maybe? Who's the new "anti-colonialist" power today?
@aral@mastodon.ar.al
@element@mastodon.matrix.org @ahltorp@mastodon.nu -
@kravietz @couscous @aral @element @ahltorp
I see it that opponents view it as "blood money" that poisons the project, and supporters see it as "the police/military have these fuckloads of money, might as well have them go to some commons"
now, is "tapping MIC budgets for a good cause" enough to outweigh "selling your services to the oppressor"?
two things can be true at once, and there's an (at least perceived) risk of the project getting too chummy with the violence-dispensing institutions
Granted that Mastodon is funded by EU and EU is part funded by France and other - using your logic - "blood money", you and everyone else here (except for me, because I'm on Akkoma) directly benefits from "blood money". At least that's how I perceive it. Your logic, not mine.
@couscous@mamot.fr @aral@mastodon.ar.al @element@mastodon.matrix.org @ahltorp@mastodon.nu
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Lots of insults, zero facts or arguments
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@Stomata @aral @element @precariousmind Who made your laptop? Who made the parts in your laptop?
@MisuseCase@twit.social @aral@mastodon.ar.al @element@mastodon.matrix.org @precariousmind@neopaquita.es let's pay Amazon for our servers!
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@mpsi @MisuseCase @aral @element
One’s intentions can be noble while still adopting the wrong strategies to achieve them.I used to use Western Europe as a good example of the many ways we could be better but now that example is fading.
@freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element I think we all everywhere in the world need to find new ways of organizing ourselves politically and socially. All old models require a revision. And I am deeply convinced that any working solutions must be democratic.
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@MisuseCase@twit.social @aral@mastodon.ar.al @element@mastodon.matrix.org @precariousmind@neopaquita.es let's pay Amazon for our servers!
@Stomata @aral @element @precariousmind Which social justice oriented and totally non-fascist tech company made your laptop, bruh?
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@sotolf @LukefromDC @aral @element
Can you recommend alternatives to Signal that are more trustworthy? -
@freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element I think we all everywhere in the world need to find new ways of organizing ourselves politically and socially. All old models require a revision. And I am deeply convinced that any working solutions must be democratic.
@mpsi @MisuseCase @aral @element
No argument there. -
@mpsi @aral @element
Something they should be commended for. I don’t support any degree of authoritarianism or suppression of civil liberties, but the Chinese people seem to have enjoyed enormous improvements to their standard of living and quality of life. And I don’t recall China employing gunboat diplomacy like the US.@freediverx @aral @element Yes, they did enjoy a lot of improvement in the quality of life. But that era is over, as further improvement would require democratization, and the CPC decided otherwise.
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Read the second paragraph of your comment in which you conveniently built a strawman of an opponent, clearly using words which you consider insulting even if you don't fully understand their meaning.
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@mpsi @aral @element
Something they should be commended for. I don’t support any degree of authoritarianism or suppression of civil liberties, but the Chinese people seem to have enjoyed enormous improvements to their standard of living and quality of life. And I don’t recall China employing gunboat diplomacy like the US.@freediverx @aral @element As for the gunboat diplomacy, China is increasingly keen on doing so. There is constant tension around Taiwan and a lot of bullying in the South China Sea.
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@mpsi @aral @element
Something they should be commended for. I don’t support any degree of authoritarianism or suppression of civil liberties, but the Chinese people seem to have enjoyed enormous improvements to their standard of living and quality of life. And I don’t recall China employing gunboat diplomacy like the US.Not at all, periodic blockades and 'military exercise' around Taiwan are just a friendly gestures intended at strengthening international peace. Same goes for occupation of Tibet, labour camps for Uyghurs, death penalties, country wide censorship and social rating system.
@mpsi@toot.lv @aral@mastodon.ar.al @element@mastodon.matrix.org
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@freediverx @aral @element Yes, they did enjoy a lot of improvement in the quality of life. But that era is over, as further improvement would require democratization, and the CPC decided otherwise.
@mpsi @aral @element
I think China has generally benefitted from what is effectively a somewhat benign and competent dictatorship that hasn’t revolved around the personal interests of the dictator.The national government also doesn’t seem to micromanage local affairs.
But we all know that is not a sustainable long term solution. What happens when conditions change or their ruler dies?
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@freediverx @aral @element As for the gunboat diplomacy, China is increasingly keen on doing so. There is constant tension around Taiwan and a lot of bullying in the South China Sea.
@mpsi @aral @element
True but Taiwan seems to have some American tendencies treating capitalism almost like a state religion, with unsurprising consequences in wealth inequality and affordability.That is at odds with the Chinese government’s objectives so the tensions are understandable.
And China is forging mutually beneficial relationships with other countries very much unlike the US and western Europe.
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@mpsi @aral @element
I think China has generally benefitted from what is effectively a somewhat benign and competent dictatorship that hasn’t revolved around the personal interests of the dictator.The national government also doesn’t seem to micromanage local affairs.
But we all know that is not a sustainable long term solution. What happens when conditions change or their ruler dies?
@freediverx @aral @element I'd like to write a somewhat detailed reply to your post, but can't do that now. I'll try to share it later. In short: there is a difference between China before and after Xi Jinping.
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PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.
The “F” in FOSS doesn’t stand for fascism.
@element https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309
