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CIRCLE WITH A DOT

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  2. Admin, DevOps, Security
  3. Chat Protocols and Apps
  4. PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.

PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Chat Protocols and Apps
matrixelementpolicefascismfoss
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  • freediverx@mastodon.socialF freediverx@mastodon.social

    @mpsi @MisuseCase @aral @element
    One’s intentions can be noble while still adopting the wrong strategies to achieve them.

    I used to use Western Europe as a good example of the many ways we could be better but now that example is fading.

    mpsi@toot.lvM This user is from outside of this forum
    mpsi@toot.lvM This user is from outside of this forum
    mpsi@toot.lv
    wrote last edited by
    #108

    @freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element I think we all everywhere in the world need to find new ways of organizing ourselves politically and socially. All old models require a revision. And I am deeply convinced that any working solutions must be democratic.

    freediverx@mastodon.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
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    • stomata@procial.tchncs.deS stomata@procial.tchncs.de

      @MisuseCase@twit.social @aral@mastodon.ar.al @element@mastodon.matrix.org @precariousmind@neopaquita.es let's pay Amazon for our servers!

      misusecase@twit.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
      misusecase@twit.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
      misusecase@twit.social
      wrote last edited by
      #109

      @Stomata @aral @element @precariousmind Which social justice oriented and totally non-fascist tech company made your laptop, bruh?

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
        freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
        freediverx@mastodon.social
        wrote last edited by
        #110

        @sotolf @LukefromDC @aral @element
        Can you recommend alternatives to Signal that are more trustworthy?

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • mpsi@toot.lvM mpsi@toot.lv

          @freediverx @MisuseCase @aral @element I think we all everywhere in the world need to find new ways of organizing ourselves politically and socially. All old models require a revision. And I am deeply convinced that any working solutions must be democratic.

          freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
          freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
          freediverx@mastodon.social
          wrote last edited by
          #111

          @mpsi @MisuseCase @aral @element
          No argument there.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • freediverx@mastodon.socialF freediverx@mastodon.social

            @mpsi @aral @element
            Something they should be commended for. I don’t support any degree of authoritarianism or suppression of civil liberties, but the Chinese people seem to have enjoyed enormous improvements to their standard of living and quality of life. And I don’t recall China employing gunboat diplomacy like the US.

            mpsi@toot.lvM This user is from outside of this forum
            mpsi@toot.lvM This user is from outside of this forum
            mpsi@toot.lv
            wrote last edited by
            #112

            @freediverx @aral @element Yes, they did enjoy a lot of improvement in the quality of life. But that era is over, as further improvement would require democratization, and the CPC decided otherwise.

            freediverx@mastodon.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
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            • freediverx@mastodon.socialF freediverx@mastodon.social

              @kravietz @aral @element
              I don’t recall insulting you, unless perhaps you self-identify as a fascist.

              kravietz@agora.echelon.plK This user is from outside of this forum
              kravietz@agora.echelon.plK This user is from outside of this forum
              kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
              wrote last edited by
              #113

              @freediverx@mastodon.social

              Read the second paragraph of your comment in which you conveniently built a strawman of an opponent, clearly using words which you consider insulting even if you don't fully understand their meaning.

              @aral@mastodon.ar.al @element@mastodon.matrix.org

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • freediverx@mastodon.socialF freediverx@mastodon.social

                @mpsi @aral @element
                Something they should be commended for. I don’t support any degree of authoritarianism or suppression of civil liberties, but the Chinese people seem to have enjoyed enormous improvements to their standard of living and quality of life. And I don’t recall China employing gunboat diplomacy like the US.

                mpsi@toot.lvM This user is from outside of this forum
                mpsi@toot.lvM This user is from outside of this forum
                mpsi@toot.lv
                wrote last edited by
                #114

                @freediverx @aral @element As for the gunboat diplomacy, China is increasingly keen on doing so. There is constant tension around Taiwan and a lot of bullying in the South China Sea.

                freediverx@mastodon.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
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                • freediverx@mastodon.socialF freediverx@mastodon.social

                  @mpsi @aral @element
                  Something they should be commended for. I don’t support any degree of authoritarianism or suppression of civil liberties, but the Chinese people seem to have enjoyed enormous improvements to their standard of living and quality of life. And I don’t recall China employing gunboat diplomacy like the US.

                  kravietz@agora.echelon.plK This user is from outside of this forum
                  kravietz@agora.echelon.plK This user is from outside of this forum
                  kravietz@agora.echelon.pl
                  wrote last edited by
                  #115

                  @freediverx@mastodon.social

                  Not at all, periodic blockades and 'military exercise' around Taiwan are just a friendly gestures intended at strengthening international peace. Same goes for occupation of Tibet, labour camps for Uyghurs, death penalties, country wide censorship and social rating system.

                  @mpsi@toot.lv @aral@mastodon.ar.al @element@mastodon.matrix.org

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • mpsi@toot.lvM mpsi@toot.lv

                    @freediverx @aral @element Yes, they did enjoy a lot of improvement in the quality of life. But that era is over, as further improvement would require democratization, and the CPC decided otherwise.

                    freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                    freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                    freediverx@mastodon.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #116

                    @mpsi @aral @element
                    I think China has generally benefitted from what is effectively a somewhat benign and competent dictatorship that hasn’t revolved around the personal interests of the dictator.

                    The national government also doesn’t seem to micromanage local affairs.

                    But we all know that is not a sustainable long term solution. What happens when conditions change or their ruler dies?

                    mpsi@toot.lvM 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

                      @aral @element “no, there are no backdoors” is rich coming from the protocol whose previous end-to-end encryption implementation was effectively a no-op and whose current implementation leaks almost every bit of message metadata and is notoriously unreliable on top of it

                      leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
                      leeloo@chaosfem.twL This user is from outside of this forum
                      leeloo@chaosfem.tw
                      wrote last edited by
                      #117

                      @zzt @aral @element
                      Don't need a back door if you don't have walls.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • mpsi@toot.lvM mpsi@toot.lv

                        @freediverx @aral @element As for the gunboat diplomacy, China is increasingly keen on doing so. There is constant tension around Taiwan and a lot of bullying in the South China Sea.

                        freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                        freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                        freediverx@mastodon.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #118

                        @mpsi @aral @element
                        True but Taiwan seems to have some American tendencies treating capitalism almost like a state religion, with unsurprising consequences in wealth inequality and affordability.

                        That is at odds with the Chinese government’s objectives so the tensions are understandable.

                        And China is forging mutually beneficial relationships with other countries very much unlike the US and western Europe.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • freediverx@mastodon.socialF freediverx@mastodon.social

                          @mpsi @aral @element
                          I think China has generally benefitted from what is effectively a somewhat benign and competent dictatorship that hasn’t revolved around the personal interests of the dictator.

                          The national government also doesn’t seem to micromanage local affairs.

                          But we all know that is not a sustainable long term solution. What happens when conditions change or their ruler dies?

                          mpsi@toot.lvM This user is from outside of this forum
                          mpsi@toot.lvM This user is from outside of this forum
                          mpsi@toot.lv
                          wrote last edited by
                          #119

                          @freediverx @aral @element I'd like to write a somewhat detailed reply to your post, but can't do that now. I'll try to share it later. In short: there is a difference between China before and after Xi Jinping.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • aral@mastodon.ar.alA aral@mastodon.ar.al

                            PS. With all the Discord stuff, in case you wonder why you never see me promoting Matrix, it’s not because it’s a usability nightmare (which it is) but because it’s made by the kind of people who’d be happy to call ICE a customer.

                            The “F” in FOSS doesn’t stand for fascism.

                            @element https://mastodon.matrix.org/@element/110340953550548309

                            #discord #matrix #element #police #fascism #FOSS

                            only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                            only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                            only_ohm@mas.to
                            wrote last edited by
                            #120

                            @element @aral

                            What (if anything) is the use case for Discord/Matrix that can't be done at least as well with an appropriate combination of Signal/Threema and Mastodon?

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                              only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                              only_ohm@mas.to
                              wrote last edited by
                              #121

                              @freediverx @sotolf @aral @element @LukefromDC

                              AIUI, Signal rely on third-party hosting (AWS I think), so they don't control where their servers are located.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                                only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                                only_ohm@mas.to
                                wrote last edited by
                                #122

                                @freediverx @sotolf @aral @element @LukefromDC

                                To some extent, as long as the encryption works, that doesn't matter. I don't want to write them an instruction manual, but if a hostile US government really wanted to break the privacy of Signal Chats, its easier approach would be to use the fact that the Google Play Store and the Apple Store are hosted on US territory to sneak a backdoor into the client apps...

                                only_ohm@mas.toO 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • only_ohm@mas.toO only_ohm@mas.to

                                  @freediverx @sotolf @aral @element @LukefromDC

                                  To some extent, as long as the encryption works, that doesn't matter. I don't want to write them an instruction manual, but if a hostile US government really wanted to break the privacy of Signal Chats, its easier approach would be to use the fact that the Google Play Store and the Apple Store are hosted on US territory to sneak a backdoor into the client apps...

                                  only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                                  only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                                  only_ohm@mas.to
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #123

                                  @freediverx @sotolf @aral @element @LukefromDC

                                  ... It'd probably only last a few hours before someone compiling from source themselves noticed that the builds on the Play Store and the Apple Store were not reproducible, but those few hours would be enough to harvest a *lot* of data.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                                    only_ohm@mas.toO This user is from outside of this forum
                                    only_ohm@mas.to
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #124

                                    @freediverx @sotolf @aral @element @LukefromDC

                                    They have, but will they faithfully promise a customer to host stuff only on those servers, and will they be 100% reliable in sticking to that promise?

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • zzt@mas.toZ zzt@mas.to

                                      @Tamtam @aral @element none unfortunately. somehow, software as an industry is incapable of making a chat protocol worth a damn.

                                      qgustavor@urusai.socialQ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      qgustavor@urusai.socialQ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      qgustavor@urusai.social
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #125

                                      @zzt @Tamtam @aral There are some people working on adding E2EE to Mastodon, but, as far as I read about it, it will be like having Signal but decentralised and with better UX but lacking voice/video calls (so, Mastodon but your instance owner can't read your private messages and you don't need to verify codes or qr codes like Signal).

                                      They are taking their time because once deployed it will be hard to fix things. I know that from experience developing megajs!!! I wish they didn't use RSA — non-standard RSA even, is a pain in the ass to work with — for authentication. Why not Ed25519 which has smaller keys or a post-quantum scheme?! I wish Matrix development was done like Mastodon's E2EE.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                        freediverx@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                        freediverx@mastodon.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #126

                                        @sotolf @only_ohm @aral @Element @LukefromDC
                                        It's alarming how much data infrastructure is controlled by Bezos. Europeans should be looking to create their own competing infrastructures instead of wasting money on the AI boondoggle.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • outfrost@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          outfrost@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          outfrost@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #127

                                          @kravietz you've gone a little far in not understanding the point, mate

                                          @aral @element

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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