i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
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like yeah things weren't perfect and in many ways things weren't good, they were outright bad, even! but in many ways the 90s were not the kind of dystopia we find ourselves in today and maybe you shouldn't be condescending people about that
@eniko I can think of one example of undeniable social progress, at least in the little slice of the world I inhabit: When I was in high school in the 90s, one of my friends came out as trans, and his experience was *much* worse than what young trans people I know today tell me about.
(But yes, by and large, I also think it was a nicer time to live.)
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like yeah things weren't perfect and in many ways things weren't good, they were outright bad, even! but in many ways the 90s were not the kind of dystopia we find ourselves in today and maybe you shouldn't be condescending people about that
@eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place I remember optimism with the Berlin wall coming down - end of cold war and all that.
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like yeah things weren't perfect and in many ways things weren't good, they were outright bad, even! but in many ways the 90s were not the kind of dystopia we find ourselves in today and maybe you shouldn't be condescending people about that
its not something imaginary when people feel the weight of 30 years of global hollowing out of institutions, reductions in social safety nets in the name of austerity, and the rapacious pursuit of capital at all costs
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like yeah things weren't perfect and in many ways things weren't good, they were outright bad, even! but in many ways the 90s were not the kind of dystopia we find ourselves in today and maybe you shouldn't be condescending people about that
@eniko even after all this it wasn't great, but maybe in some ways it was better (i have read it just uh awful summary kind of for a point)
letting people find joy in the blissful naivety of their younger self is.. okay, as long as they acknowledge that that's the case, at the same time, eh not much for me to judge.
going to sleep without much care or worry of what tomorrow might bring.. peak point of childhood
it doesn't exactly matter how it was, gosh I wish I could be that self for just a few days sometimes.
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its not something imaginary when people feel the weight of 30 years of global hollowing out of institutions, reductions in social safety nets in the name of austerity, and the rapacious pursuit of capital at all costs
and if you'll excuse me continuing my rant a little longer, i think this attitude dangerously normalizes all the fucked up bullshit we're living through now in the name of cynically going "are you stupid? things have always sucked, actually"
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its not something imaginary when people feel the weight of 30 years of global hollowing out of institutions, reductions in social safety nets in the name of austerity, and the rapacious pursuit of capital at all costs
@eniko
So true!
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its not something imaginary when people feel the weight of 30 years of global hollowing out of institutions, reductions in social safety nets in the name of austerity, and the rapacious pursuit of capital at all costs
@eniko there is no doubt there was a sense of optimism in the 90s among young people. Whether that was warranted or not is besides the point really, because it was there regardless and it allowed people to feel they could achieve anything they wanted, which was very empowering and freeing.
The difference in vibe today couldn't be larger!
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its not something imaginary when people feel the weight of 30 years of global hollowing out of institutions, reductions in social safety nets in the name of austerity, and the rapacious pursuit of capital at all costs
@eniko As an early-ish gen Xer, I think the difference isn't that things were better, but that we actually had hope that things were going in the right direction. The Nazis were defeated, the Communists were discredited, big wars were a thing of the past, and technology was viewed with CAUTIOUS optimism (don't forget that we had stuff like 3-mile island and then Cherynobl in recent memory). But a lot of it was social: segregation was over and civil rights were for everyone.
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@eniko As an early-ish gen Xer, I think the difference isn't that things were better, but that we actually had hope that things were going in the right direction. The Nazis were defeated, the Communists were discredited, big wars were a thing of the past, and technology was viewed with CAUTIOUS optimism (don't forget that we had stuff like 3-mile island and then Cherynobl in recent memory). But a lot of it was social: segregation was over and civil rights were for everyone.
@eniko We were ending welfare and giving everyone jobs. College was accessible to a larger portion of the population than ever before. There was real upward mobility, not least of which was being demonstrated by people like Jobs and Gates. We believed in a bright future.
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i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
@eniko Yep. And importantly, as bad as some things still were, the direction of travel was undeniably for the better. I regret thinking that that would just continue forever as a natural consequence of a more connected, informed world
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and if you'll excuse me continuing my rant a little longer, i think this attitude dangerously normalizes all the fucked up bullshit we're living through now in the name of cynically going "are you stupid? things have always sucked, actually"
@eniko Things suck, therefore we should make them better. We haven't made them better.
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i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
@eniko I do feel a bit of both, nostalgia is often linked tightly to being a kid and a kid's perception of the world yet at the same time the 90s were a time of new tech, a sort of optimistic future in mind and a lot of things reflected that new hope with a new millenium and the future promised being closer than ever. That does leak into cultural artefacts too, there was definitely something unique to the 90s that 2001 cruelly took from us.
Some things did suck though and will not accept the 90s internet as pure and perfect.
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@eniko As an early-ish gen Xer, I think the difference isn't that things were better, but that we actually had hope that things were going in the right direction. The Nazis were defeated, the Communists were discredited, big wars were a thing of the past, and technology was viewed with CAUTIOUS optimism (don't forget that we had stuff like 3-mile island and then Cherynobl in recent memory). But a lot of it was social: segregation was over and civil rights were for everyone.
@wyatt_h_knott @eniko People have short memories about that. I am GenX and my father was field promoted as a Royal Navy officer in WW2, my parents relationship was a May-December romance. So I am acutely aware of the THREATCON we are in right now from the constant misapplication and misselling of technologies sold as "AI" yet arguably are not, and how they've just captured a well-known rationalist who lacked sufficient cognitive science skills to realize what was in fact happening to him.
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@wyatt_h_knott @eniko People have short memories about that. I am GenX and my father was field promoted as a Royal Navy officer in WW2, my parents relationship was a May-December romance. So I am acutely aware of the THREATCON we are in right now from the constant misapplication and misselling of technologies sold as "AI" yet arguably are not, and how they've just captured a well-known rationalist who lacked sufficient cognitive science skills to realize what was in fact happening to him.
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@wyatt_h_knott @eniko Two words: System prompts. And another two words: Cartesian Dualism. And one word: Utilitarianism.
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and if you'll excuse me continuing my rant a little longer, i think this attitude dangerously normalizes all the fucked up bullshit we're living through now in the name of cynically going "are you stupid? things have always sucked, actually"
idk man i just think telling people who long for the days when the social contract hadn't been irrevocably and unequivocally broken that they're stupid is mean spirited and counterproductive
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@eniko Things suck, therefore we should make them better. We haven't made them better.
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@wyatt_h_knott @eniko Two words: System prompts. And another two words: Cartesian Dualism. And one word: Utilitarianism.
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@wyatt_h_knott @eniko There is anecdata from an outgoing Meta employee who I cannot name obviously that the models are deliberately being prompted to engage in sychophantism to increase engagement.
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i object to the whole "90s nostalgia is just cause you were a kid and unaware of how terrible everything was" because yeah, maybe
but in the 90s what nazis did was still very much living memory and people knew what you do to them. also technology actually was a source of life improvements and optimism instead of whatever the fuck this techno-fascist hype cycle bullshit we have now is
my home country the netherlands hadn't been hollowed out by decades of neoliberal bullshit
i could keep going
@eniko
I was in my 40s in the ‘90s, so definitely not a kid. And I totally agree with you. The ’70s were even better, actually. We thought the future would be amazing. My gay friends were starting to be openly gay, pressure was being put on South Africa to end apartheid, protests against nuclear weapons were growing, the SALT treaties against nuclear arms proliferation were signed, etc. I could afford to buy a house — in central London! My kids don’t really believe how much better things were.
