The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
-
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3o -
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3o@ChrisMayLA6 It's a real answer to productivity increases not being mirrored in wages?
-
@ChrisMayLA6 It's a real answer to productivity increases not being mirrored in wages?
Indeed, this is exactly how C19th & early C20th socialists hoped the economy would develop - productivity rises being taken not in wages but in more free time... that logic now seems finally to be taken more seriously
-
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3o@ChrisMayLA6 Also, cramming a week full is not smart planning wise for a lot of tasks. That is what the 20 pct research time in Google was about.
-
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3o@ChrisMayLA6 It can also make the employer employee relationship healthier that way. A common sense mentality towards swapping days hugely increases planning efforts. It also signals a lot both ways.
-
@ChrisMayLA6 It can also make the employer employee relationship healthier that way. A common sense mentality towards swapping days hugely increases planning efforts. It also signals a lot both ways.
yes agree; one of the clear misapprehensions is that everyone should work the *same* four days
-
R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topicR relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
-
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3o@ChrisMayLA6 i have to cringe at the two examples they picked tho: someone who’s in “branding”, and a product manager in “software startups”
couldn’t they find at least one person with a real non-bullshit job and ask them about their thoughts and experiences?
-
@ChrisMayLA6 i have to cringe at the two examples they picked tho: someone who’s in “branding”, and a product manager in “software startups”
couldn’t they find at least one person with a real non-bullshit job and ask them about their thoughts and experiences?
But its also emblematic of who is seen as having (wrongly) he 'typical' job - desk-based, knowledge manipulating...
-
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3o@ChrisMayLA6 I really like the focus and I always enjoy Anna's reporting, but I can't help notice the glaring "both sides" supposedly objective framing (that is also so common in the US). It always seems to end up actually sounding like support for the status quo. ("Sure, it works there but will never work here" exceptionalism.)
-
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3oI’ve seen a bunch of productivity studies that say productivity for knowledge workers peaks at around 20 hours a week, plateaus until about 40, and then declines, so someone working 30 hours a week will achieve as much as someone working 40 (the problem comes when someone decides to use the extra time off to work a second job, which then hits their productivity in both). Above around 60 hours a week, net productivity tends to be negative: you (or other people) spend longer fixing your mistakes than making forward progress.
But a couple of years ago I was chatting to a researcher who studied productivity in construction workers and I was initially surprised that it was similar. Bit it makes sense: construction work has a lot of classes of error that are incredibly expensive to fix. Pour concrete in the wrong place and that’s a few person-days of jackhammering to fix. Misread the plans and put power or plumbing into the wrong place and you may need to rip out some finishing or even structural bits to be able to fix it (or need to adjust the design to work around it). Working when not properly rested and relaxed in such an environment can easily flip you into net-negative productivity.
-
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3o@ChrisMayLA6 I got into the situation where the fifth working day was giving me just a little bit of additional nett income because of the additional cost of daycare. The choice to work one day less, and do fun stuff with my kid was an easy one to make.
That day stuck around, and I still do some work.
-
@ChrisMayLA6 I really like the focus and I always enjoy Anna's reporting, but I can't help notice the glaring "both sides" supposedly objective framing (that is also so common in the US). It always seems to end up actually sounding like support for the status quo. ("Sure, it works there but will never work here" exceptionalism.)
that will be the BBC 'editorial guidance' I imagine
-
I’ve seen a bunch of productivity studies that say productivity for knowledge workers peaks at around 20 hours a week, plateaus until about 40, and then declines, so someone working 30 hours a week will achieve as much as someone working 40 (the problem comes when someone decides to use the extra time off to work a second job, which then hits their productivity in both). Above around 60 hours a week, net productivity tends to be negative: you (or other people) spend longer fixing your mistakes than making forward progress.
But a couple of years ago I was chatting to a researcher who studied productivity in construction workers and I was initially surprised that it was similar. Bit it makes sense: construction work has a lot of classes of error that are incredibly expensive to fix. Pour concrete in the wrong place and that’s a few person-days of jackhammering to fix. Misread the plans and put power or plumbing into the wrong place and you may need to rip out some finishing or even structural bits to be able to fix it (or need to adjust the design to work around it). Working when not properly rested and relaxed in such an environment can easily flip you into net-negative productivity.
yes, my observation of my colleagues at university (before I retired) would support that claim too
-
I’ve seen a bunch of productivity studies that say productivity for knowledge workers peaks at around 20 hours a week, plateaus until about 40, and then declines, so someone working 30 hours a week will achieve as much as someone working 40 (the problem comes when someone decides to use the extra time off to work a second job, which then hits their productivity in both). Above around 60 hours a week, net productivity tends to be negative: you (or other people) spend longer fixing your mistakes than making forward progress.
But a couple of years ago I was chatting to a researcher who studied productivity in construction workers and I was initially surprised that it was similar. Bit it makes sense: construction work has a lot of classes of error that are incredibly expensive to fix. Pour concrete in the wrong place and that’s a few person-days of jackhammering to fix. Misread the plans and put power or plumbing into the wrong place and you may need to rip out some finishing or even structural bits to be able to fix it (or need to adjust the design to work around it). Working when not properly rested and relaxed in such an environment can easily flip you into net-negative productivity.
@david_chisnall Oh, I now so much want to read those papers!
-
I’ve seen a bunch of productivity studies that say productivity for knowledge workers peaks at around 20 hours a week, plateaus until about 40, and then declines, so someone working 30 hours a week will achieve as much as someone working 40 (the problem comes when someone decides to use the extra time off to work a second job, which then hits their productivity in both). Above around 60 hours a week, net productivity tends to be negative: you (or other people) spend longer fixing your mistakes than making forward progress.
But a couple of years ago I was chatting to a researcher who studied productivity in construction workers and I was initially surprised that it was similar. Bit it makes sense: construction work has a lot of classes of error that are incredibly expensive to fix. Pour concrete in the wrong place and that’s a few person-days of jackhammering to fix. Misread the plans and put power or plumbing into the wrong place and you may need to rip out some finishing or even structural bits to be able to fix it (or need to adjust the design to work around it). Working when not properly rested and relaxed in such an environment can easily flip you into net-negative productivity.
@david_chisnall @ChrisMayLA6 This was known a century ago. The UK 40hr week was finally established when WW1 showed that munitions factory productivity peaked there and the 60hr emergency working was counter productive.
It's a symptom of our abysmal managerial expertise and training in the UK that this isn't known by default by all managers and company boards. -
yes agree; one of the clear misapprehensions is that everyone should work the *same* four days
@ChrisMayLA6 Indeed. The 5th day is in systems theory called 'slack' and this is required to keep any system under control.
The odds are very high that you are familiar with this. I still thought it was important to emphasize, since it is an politically impartial argument.
-
@ChrisMayLA6 Indeed. The 5th day is in systems theory called 'slack' and this is required to keep any system under control.
The odds are very high that you are familiar with this. I still thought it was important to emphasize, since it is an politically impartial argument.
@ChrisMayLA6 Note by coincidence or not, 20% is usually also considered the right amount of slack for a lot of systems.
Zooming out. A lot of systems in the end require change, nothing stays the same. So this slack might turn out to be the difference between 'running down' and 'sustainable maintenance'.
And that pertains likely equally to machines and humans.
-
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3o@ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us What a strange article. "Hey, loads of folk in the Netherlands work four days, they love it and companies are still doing really well....but some people at the OECD think it's a bad idea - let's write about that instead!"
Curiously when looking for charts of GPD per capita over time I can't find the "lack of growth" that supposedly points to the Netherlands' potential downfall.
-
The Dutch have been quietly getting on with normalising the four day working week, and it seems to not have had the negative impact many critics have claimed, with the Netherlands' economy still one of the most successful in the EU;
as so often, real political economic change can be organic rather than forced, and in the UK while at an early stage of this process, the four day working week is slowly but surely e becoming more widely adopted. Good!
#workers #FourDayWeek
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2y85xdyw3o@ChrisMayLA6 one more time kudos for Netherlands. If we had a public central planning instead of this neoliberalism controlled by corporations we would be working less than 10 hours week on non voluntary jobs.
Freedom was supposed to be important, right?
-
@ChrisMayLA6@zirk.us What a strange article. "Hey, loads of folk in the Netherlands work four days, they love it and companies are still doing really well....but some people at the OECD think it's a bad idea - let's write about that instead!"
Curiously when looking for charts of GPD per capita over time I can't find the "lack of growth" that supposedly points to the Netherlands' potential downfall.
@wayne @ChrisMayLA6 the BBC has form on this - South Cambs DC has used a four-day week to solve a really bad recruitment and retention problem with positive results, but the article spends most of its time trying to find negative voxpops from people who don't know anything about it:
BBC News - Can South Cambridgeshire council do five days' work in four? - BBC News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0l97gnpyd5o?app-referrer=search
