For fucks sake ...

[cordiallychloe@tech.lgbt]

@JessTheUnstill Someone went on a whole rant on the LGBT subreddit the other day about how queer people need to stop being misogynistic but started it with "guys." And I immediately called them out and got dogpiled by a few people for "picking the wrong hill to die on" before the tide turned and they all got called out.

People have this deeply-held belief around that nonsense and I hate it so much.

Because you're 110% correct: "guys" isn't gender neutral.

[lightfighter@infosec.exchange]

@JessTheUnstill Growing up where I did, guys and dude were used in a gender neutral way. But, I've changed my usage. I've adopted the Southern options of, y'all and all y'all.

[jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange]

@Lightfighter I mean I know most people still don't use guys out of malice or something. But it still is uck to do it to a group of trans women

[genehack@dementedandsadbut.social]

@JessTheUnstill I retrained myself out of this in, like, 2019, and I’m still hearing it, and it GRATES

[katharta@quietzero.net]

@JessTheUnstill I'm a dude, she's a dude, we're all dudes.

[jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange]

@katharta Ummm .... No.

[uxmark@cosocial.ca]

@JessTheUnstill It literally took me a couple of years to remove it from my vocabulary following a lifetime of use. But I managed it. I usually use folks now (despite its use by an awful conservative politician here in Ontario, Canada).

[breathoflife@infosec.exchange]

@JessTheUnstill

could "gen" be a they/them gender neutral equivalent of "guy" and "gal"?

it starts with "g", has a vowel in the middle, and the "n" flows neatly from the "e", just like in "guy" and "gal"...

[pawv@tech.lgbt]

@JessTheUnstill Agreed. So invalidating to suggest otherwise.

Tangentially, I'm not a fan of "dolls" either.

[twodarek@hachyderm.io]

I've very specifically stopped using "dude" around any women I know to be trans (which has largely caused me to substitute in "y'all" for most conversations anyway) because "dude" could possibly be misread as misgendering them. Social anxiety for the win?

@JessTheUnstill @katharta

[timo_micro@scicomm.xyz]

@JessTheUnstill It's not the most scientifically robust dataset, but in the inclusive language course at work we ask "do you feel included when someone says Hey Guys?" We normally get at least 15 or 20% of people responding that they don't feel included. We also included other examples and talking points but this is the one that sticks, or at least that's what people fill out when asked "what will you do differently in future?" There is hope

[centretowner@urbanists.social]

@Tooden @JessTheUnstill perhaps in some contexts, but not as a direct replacement for "you guys"; "you people" has negative connotations, especially if those being addressed are in a noticeably different group from the speaker.

[jesstheunstill@infosec.exchange]

@breathOfLife I mean you can try and make it happen, but gen and men are going to be easily confused, and calling women what they hear as "men" is going to be even more irritating.