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  3. When pavement ants (the little reddish brown ants you see in sidewalk cracks) have intra-species war they use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence to determine who has a larger army.

When pavement ants (the little reddish brown ants you see in sidewalk cracks) have intra-species war they use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence to determine who has a larger army.

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  • michaelgemar@cosocial.caM michaelgemar@cosocial.ca

    @futurebird What does “overwhelm” mean?

    The notion of “counting” by pairing up is kinda amazing.

    futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
    futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
    futurebird@sauropods.win
    wrote last edited by
    #8

    @michaelgemar

    The purpose of these battles... what initiates and ends them, is unknown. There are some theories. The simple one is that the winners take over some of the foraging territory of the losers, but observations don't totally support this.

    Another idea is that it's all about heated patches of sidewalk. The space under the warm rock is ideal for raising alates and the battles occur in the lead up to nuptial flights. The ants take over the heated nesting spot under the battlefield.

    futurebird@sauropods.winF michaelgemar@cosocial.caM tattie@eldritch.cafeT lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.netL 4 Replies Last reply
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    • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

      @michaelgemar

      The purpose of these battles... what initiates and ends them, is unknown. There are some theories. The simple one is that the winners take over some of the foraging territory of the losers, but observations don't totally support this.

      Another idea is that it's all about heated patches of sidewalk. The space under the warm rock is ideal for raising alates and the battles occur in the lead up to nuptial flights. The ants take over the heated nesting spot under the battlefield.

      futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
      futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
      futurebird@sauropods.win
      wrote last edited by
      #9

      @michaelgemar

      In the wild they would have fought over flat rocks that rested in the sun. By making sidewalks we have given them an endless paradise, but even so, some tiles are more desirable than others since they get better sun, or maybe there is a sprinkler! Very fancy digs!

      futurebird@sauropods.winF 1 Reply Last reply
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      • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

        @michaelgemar

        In the wild they would have fought over flat rocks that rested in the sun. By making sidewalks we have given them an endless paradise, but even so, some tiles are more desirable than others since they get better sun, or maybe there is a sprinkler! Very fancy digs!

        futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
        futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
        futurebird@sauropods.win
        wrote last edited by
        #10

        @michaelgemar

        Tetramorium immigrans have been called habitat specialists. Normally in a wild forest flat rocks on well drained soil in the sun would be rare and the "wars" may have evolved to decide who gets to keep the rock. But sidewalk ants both have pretty good homes, though one might be a bit warmer, so they pair up find out they are both very numerous and similar in size and then go home.

        The first Tetramorium immigrans queen to find a sidewalk must have been amazed.

        futurebird@sauropods.winF 1 Reply Last reply
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        • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

          @michaelgemar

          Tetramorium immigrans have been called habitat specialists. Normally in a wild forest flat rocks on well drained soil in the sun would be rare and the "wars" may have evolved to decide who gets to keep the rock. But sidewalk ants both have pretty good homes, though one might be a bit warmer, so they pair up find out they are both very numerous and similar in size and then go home.

          The first Tetramorium immigrans queen to find a sidewalk must have been amazed.

          futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
          futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
          futurebird@sauropods.win
          wrote last edited by
          #11

          @michaelgemar

          The paper I'm reading attributes the tremendous success of Tetramorium immigrans in part to their low causality "wars" they aren't the only ants that do this. Meat Ants in Australia and Dynomyrmex gigas (one of the largest ants in the world) also have ways of pairing off and sizing each other up that don't involve ants trying to kill each other.

          And they could easily kill each other, ants are omnivorous predators. But when two ants of a similar size fight both can end up dead.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

            When pavement ants (the little reddish brown ants you see in sidewalk cracks) have intra-species war they use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence to determine who has a larger army.

            Ants pair off locking jaws with another ant of similar size.

            Any leftover ants from the larger colony will gang up two on one against the other colony.

            Then based on things only ants know either they all go home OR one colony overwhelms the other.

            But most of the time only a few ants die.

            shurykan@ani.workS This user is from outside of this forum
            shurykan@ani.workS This user is from outside of this forum
            shurykan@ani.work
            wrote last edited by
            #12

            @futurebird one ant is too many {I mean their dying, not their existence}

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

              @michaelgemar

              The purpose of these battles... what initiates and ends them, is unknown. There are some theories. The simple one is that the winners take over some of the foraging territory of the losers, but observations don't totally support this.

              Another idea is that it's all about heated patches of sidewalk. The space under the warm rock is ideal for raising alates and the battles occur in the lead up to nuptial flights. The ants take over the heated nesting spot under the battlefield.

              michaelgemar@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
              michaelgemar@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
              michaelgemar@cosocial.ca
              wrote last edited by
              #13

              @futurebird So we don’t know what the consequences of winning/losing actually are?

              I really find these ants astounding — they live in urban settings, in the hard-packed dirt under concrete slabs, and they seem to thrive.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                When pavement ants (the little reddish brown ants you see in sidewalk cracks) have intra-species war they use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence to determine who has a larger army.

                Ants pair off locking jaws with another ant of similar size.

                Any leftover ants from the larger colony will gang up two on one against the other colony.

                Then based on things only ants know either they all go home OR one colony overwhelms the other.

                But most of the time only a few ants die.

                oldclumsy_nowmad@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                oldclumsy_nowmad@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                oldclumsy_nowmad@mastodon.social
                wrote last edited by
                #14

                @futurebird

                Maybe we Homo saps could learn a thing or two from them. We could size the "enemy" up (before declaring war or Special Military Operations), by square dancing with them.

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                • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                  @michaelgemar

                  The purpose of these battles... what initiates and ends them, is unknown. There are some theories. The simple one is that the winners take over some of the foraging territory of the losers, but observations don't totally support this.

                  Another idea is that it's all about heated patches of sidewalk. The space under the warm rock is ideal for raising alates and the battles occur in the lead up to nuptial flights. The ants take over the heated nesting spot under the battlefield.

                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                  tattie@eldritch.cafeT This user is from outside of this forum
                  tattie@eldritch.cafe
                  wrote last edited by
                  #15

                  @futurebird anty matters, I guess
                  @michaelgemar

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                  • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                    @michaelgemar

                    The purpose of these battles... what initiates and ends them, is unknown. There are some theories. The simple one is that the winners take over some of the foraging territory of the losers, but observations don't totally support this.

                    Another idea is that it's all about heated patches of sidewalk. The space under the warm rock is ideal for raising alates and the battles occur in the lead up to nuptial flights. The ants take over the heated nesting spot under the battlefield.

                    lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.netL This user is from outside of this forum
                    lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.netL This user is from outside of this forum
                    lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net
                    wrote last edited by
                    #16

                    @futurebird
                    Note that you haven't answered @michaelgemar 's question.
                    What do you mean by "one colony overwhelms the other" ?
                    What happens exactly when this happens ?

                    futurebird@sauropods.winF 2 Replies Last reply
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                    • lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.netL lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net

                      @futurebird
                      Note that you haven't answered @michaelgemar 's question.
                      What do you mean by "one colony overwhelms the other" ?
                      What happens exactly when this happens ?

                      futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                      futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                      futurebird@sauropods.win
                      wrote last edited by
                      #17

                      @lienrag @michaelgemar

                      They take their nesting space and probably steal a bunch of their larvae if the colony can't run away. They may kill the queen ... or they might just keep her. This species has both single queen and multi-queen colonies and we don't understand why they sometimes tolerate it. (but in other cases every "extra" queen is murdered.)

                      klara@drupal.communityK 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                        @lienrag @michaelgemar

                        They take their nesting space and probably steal a bunch of their larvae if the colony can't run away. They may kill the queen ... or they might just keep her. This species has both single queen and multi-queen colonies and we don't understand why they sometimes tolerate it. (but in other cases every "extra" queen is murdered.)

                        klara@drupal.communityK This user is from outside of this forum
                        klara@drupal.communityK This user is from outside of this forum
                        klara@drupal.community
                        wrote last edited by
                        #18

                        @futurebird @lienrag @michaelgemar Thank you for the full documentary. I hope you don’t mind if I heard that in "Attenborough"

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.netL lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net

                          @futurebird
                          Note that you haven't answered @michaelgemar 's question.
                          What do you mean by "one colony overwhelms the other" ?
                          What happens exactly when this happens ?

                          futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                          futurebird@sauropods.winF This user is from outside of this forum
                          futurebird@sauropods.win
                          wrote last edited by
                          #19

                          @lienrag @michaelgemar

                          I mean... a big part of the problem is we need to study them more. But they are not destructive pests, they are just successful in urban environments, but they rarely enter human homes and mostly make things better by cleaning up trash and suppressing more annoying invasive pests. So there isn't funding to study them I think?

                          michaelgemar@cosocial.caM 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                            The ants can't just tell each other the size of their armies, also even if they could the enemy might lie!

                            So they all pair off holding each other's mandibles and beating the other ant on the head with her antennae.

                            If there are only a few unpaired ants that means war would be a bad idea and so they just skip it.

                            kaisla@eliitin-some.fiK This user is from outside of this forum
                            kaisla@eliitin-some.fiK This user is from outside of this forum
                            kaisla@eliitin-some.fi
                            wrote last edited by
                            #20

                            @futurebird I bet they feel very nervous locking off with a stranger waiting to see if the battle starts or if everyone decides skip it

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • futurebird@sauropods.winF futurebird@sauropods.win

                              @lienrag @michaelgemar

                              I mean... a big part of the problem is we need to study them more. But they are not destructive pests, they are just successful in urban environments, but they rarely enter human homes and mostly make things better by cleaning up trash and suppressing more annoying invasive pests. So there isn't funding to study them I think?

                              michaelgemar@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                              michaelgemar@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                              michaelgemar@cosocial.ca
                              wrote last edited by
                              #21

                              @futurebird @lienrag That’s a real shame — they’re so common I would think it would be relatively cheap to study them (at least “in the field”) compared to more exotic species. And given their potential role in the urban ecology, they seem important to understand.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • falcennial@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                falcennial@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                falcennial@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #22

                                @thegarbagebird @futurebird real talk

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