Hot take: Paladins should not be able to turn the undead.

[randomwizard@social.vivaldi.net]

@DM_Zeppelin I sort of have a love/hate relationship to paladin as a class. I like the idea of it making players easily play for/against tropes (holy knight with a cause).

But there is something mary sue about the class, like elf fighter/magic users that I do not like.

Also, I, lately (more like for quite a few years now), do not want to make up psuedo religions for my campaigns. But that is just some personal preference.

[dm_zeppelin@dice.camp]

@randomwizard Understood. I know there is a variety of opinions on them. I like them in concept, I just want them to feel like more than just a fighter/cleric.

Despite my feelings on real world organized religion, I really enjoy creating gods and faiths for my campaign world and having them take a vested interest in the world.

I understand not wanting or being interested in that aspect - and that's the beauty of these games. Both ways are valid!

[phf@tabletop.social]

@DM_Zeppelin @randomwizard I'll add a "hot take" on top. For me "cleric" is already "paladin" in the sense that it combines spell casting on the basis of some religious experience with fighting in the sense of bashing in the heads of those who can't by convinced/converted by a sermon.

[dm_zeppelin@dice.camp]

@phf @randomwizard

Here's how I handle their roles:

Cleric: Tends to the faithful and spreads the word of their faith by doing deeds in support of faith as an agent of the church.

Paladin: Enforces the doctrine within the faithful and seeks to destroy enemies of the faith as an agent of the deity.

[malin@dice.camp]

@DM_Zeppelin priest: get back to the shadows! Depart these bodies!

Paladin: don't ruin my fun! C'mere ya dead shitstain. I'll knock your block off!

[dm_zeppelin@dice.camp]

@malin Exactly.

[malin@dice.camp]

@DM_Zeppelin

> You sure you're a paladin?

"Yea, man - fuckin' hate undead!"

> You never turn undead.

"Turning's for pussies. Ruins the fun"

> Is healing also for pussies?

"Yes. Real men don't get hit. We just holy smite"

> Yea, about that - you keep shouting 'holy smite' and then booting things in the head.

"Ancient paladin trick, that one"

[randomwizard@social.vivaldi.net]

@DM_Zeppelin @phf I would say on the cleric paladin split, that I think the real class archetype for cleric should be "priest" and they are not allowed to wear armor, much like magic-user.

Also, from looking at the Dungeon! boardgame, and many video games (Dragon Age comes to mind), the real core character concepts to my mind are

Fighter (weapons)
Thief (sneak skills)
Spellcaster (spells)

And a cleric is just a spellcaster.

[dm_zeppelin@dice.camp]

@randomwizard @phf

World of Warcraft took that angle with priests, too. I like it and plan on having this type of class in Evermore Adventures. The "priest" would be a caster and tasked with being the church's representative and administrator. They would occasionally find their way to adventure.

I'd still keep the cleric (Devoted, in my setting) as the more militant side of the church while the Paladin is special forces. Haha

[space_burger_steve@mstdn.ca]

@DM_Zeppelin Countertake: a paladin's zeal for justice is their greatest weapon, that piece of metal they hold is the offhand weapon of their soul.

Yes, in my mind every paladin does contain at least a small amount of The Tick.