It's kind of amazing how many veteran Linux greyhairs I've seen, downstream of the age-check-in-systemd decision, saying well I guess I need to get comfortable with a BSD now.

[technomancy@hey.hagelb.org]

@be @mhoye six entries currently on https://noai.starlightnet.work/list.html#:~:text=Languages (but four of them are lisps)

[yvan@toot.ale.gd]

@mhoye wait... what... I had assumed that was just some kinda dumb joke.

reaches for the FreeBSD ISO he downloaded last month

Not entirely joking, "modern Linux " things like systemd is one reason I'm already looking at shifting some things to a BSD.

(Debian user since 1997, me...)

[david_chisnall@infosec.exchange]

@mhoye

There’s no such thing as 30 years of RedHat muscle memory. I used RedHat quite a lot from the late ‘90s until about 20 years ago. I had to use Fedora again about for years ago and nothing I remembered about administering the system still worked. In contrast, 90% of the things I learned 25 years ago the first time I used FreeBSD still work (though they aren’t always the best way of doing things anymore).

[paul@notnull.space]

@mhoye I still don't see how something like this could possibly be made to work.

Windows, Mac, fine - stop a service running and the whole thing crashes, but open source OSes, almost by definition, are about user choice. Don't want something running in the background? Fine turn it off, no bother.

If age verification is required, but likely is going to be on device, then we'll just make a service that says "Yes, over 18" when asked.
If age verification requires a third party cloud service, then well done they've just broken the internet.

[sirwumpus@tilde.zone]

@mhoye

Come to BSD. We have cookies.

[owen@mastodon.transneptune.net]

@mhoye Here we are, at the rebirth of actually needing autotools

[sen@hachyderm.io]

@mhoye 33-34 years of Linux here, installed a BSD box into my "production" (for senCloud anyways) network for the first time a few days ago. Loving it so far, feels like Linux used to (in a good way).

[mhoye@cosocial.ca]

@paul Age checks are about letting major platforms escape the costs of moderation, whether or not it the technology works has nothing to do with anything.

[paul@notnull.space]

@mhoye yep, absolutely. It's not about keeping kids safe, it's about giving BigTech "well they should only be using it if they're the right age" get out clause.

[owen@mastodon.transneptune.net]

@sen Which BSD did you land on?

[airshipper@cloudisland.nz]

@mhoye we all wanted to use bsd all along it was just more convenient to use debian

[foolishowl@social.coop]

@miss_rodent @mhoye I've kept struggling with how to express it, but I feel like part of the problem has been the pretense that everyone should be their own sysadmin, and that it should be easy to do, so there was a lot of work done to make it *look* easy, which actually made it harder.

[sen@hachyderm.io]

@owen FreeBSD, because of @gushi.

[bentsukun@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@wordshaper @mhoye I feel vindicated for having stayed with #NetBSD for the last 15+ years.

[miss_rodent@girlcock.club]

@foolishowl @mhoye If sysadministration were easy, it wouldn't be a reasonably-well-paying job with a pile of associated certifications.
Some of the things added to make life easier for non-sysadmin users have made it harder, especially if things you need to change are outside the scope of whatever convenient interface a distro comes with, or if it interacts strongly with the many-tentacled horror of systemd.
It's a skillset that no one has by default & not everyone can be expected to learn.

[wordshaper@weatherishappening.network]

@bentsukun @mhoye Absolutely! A decade and a half of not using AIX is definitely something to celebrate.

[trcm@infosec.exchange]

@mhoye https://www.devuan.org/ is here for you

[bentsukun@mastodon.bsd.cafe]

@wordshaper @mhoye There was this internship in 2001 where I replaced AIX on an obsolete RS/6000 with a hacked up Linux and ran a DNS server on it. That was all the experience I had with AIX.

The RS/6000 has a PowerPC 604e (PReP). At some point, I realized that the office printer *also* had a PPC 604e but a faster one

[miss_rodent@girlcock.club]

@foolishowl @mhoye When linux was only a thing that programmers, system administrators, and other techy types used, the assumption that everyone could/should be their own sysadmin made more sense - everyone could be assumed to have some tech proficiency, b/c if they didn't, they would still be on DOS/windows anyway.
That hasn't been a safe assumption to make about users for ~20 years though, unless you're a distro like slackware or gentoo that is explicitly not aiming at wide general adoption.

[khleedril@cyberplace.social]

@mhoye Greybeards whiffed the smells twenty years ago and knew what was coming. It was just a matter of waiting for what comes around to come around.