I had such an interesting call today with someone from @ethereumfoundation about funding the #opensource ecosystem.
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@becomethewaifu @jannem @Gina I'm familiar with that argument--that "Blockchain" doesn't count unless it's "distributed"--and counter that this is an example of *exactly* the kind of NO WAIT THIS ISN'T BLOCKCHAIN! NOT REALLY! PLEASE DON'T WALK AWAY! that I'm talking about.
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I had such an interesting call today with someone from @ethereumfoundation about funding the #opensource ecosystem.
Basically, connecting a blockchain based funding system to a Software Bill of Materials (SBOM) to fund not just the sexy top project, but also the underlying libraries. Aka when you donate to or pay for a project, it would automatically donate to its dependencies as well (like the random person in Nebraska).
What do we think, #fediverse?
@Gina @ethereumfoundation i cant find the reference any more, but this sounds like something which i heard of a couple of years back. that was an overdesigned concept where people would pour money in one end and it would magically distribute it "fairly" by relevance.
such a system will never work, and it never needs a blockchain.
the blockchain people still seem desperate to find a applications and still seem to think that their magic would save the world. won't work.
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@Gina @ethereumfoundation i cant find the reference any more, but this sounds like something which i heard of a couple of years back. that was an overdesigned concept where people would pour money in one end and it would magically distribute it "fairly" by relevance.
such a system will never work, and it never needs a blockchain.
the blockchain people still seem desperate to find a applications and still seem to think that their magic would save the world. won't work.
@Gina @ethereumfoundation what does work is this: pay the devs who develop the software you rely on.
we do not have a problem of distributing funds more fairly, we habe a problem of funds.
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@Gina @ethereumfoundation what does work is this: pay the devs who develop the software you rely on.
we do not have a problem of distributing funds more fairly, we habe a problem of funds.
@Gina @ethereumfoundation the sexy top project should fund its dependencies
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@Gina Generally, the idea of a donation hitting a bill of materials so the underlying tools get funded seems like a good idea. Doing it through the blockchain feels like a scam.
@bryanredeagle @Gina yup, and there are existing projects that do it sans blockchain like https://thanks.dev
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@pitrh omg, what a fucking work of art. It's like the original xkcd had a baby with the old org chart meme:
@jimsalter
How have I never seen this before‽
@pitrh -
@projectmoon @ethereumfoundation I'm guessing because of the smart contract element and because it's cheaper.
I'm not sure, I'm in no way a blockchain expert. Also not sure how it would work with or without blockchain.
@Gina @projectmoon there is currently no problem that can be solved with a blockchain that can't be solved better and cheaper WITHOUT a blockchain (well, except facilitating money laundering and crime).
Of course the people behind Ethereum won't tell you that, but as we say in Italy that's like asking the innkeeper if their wine is any good.
Also, Ethereum is *extremely* sketchy (international crime level sketchy)
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@jimsalter
How have I never seen this before‽
@pitrh -
I had such an interesting call today with someone from @ethereumfoundation about funding the #opensource ecosystem.
Basically, connecting a blockchain based funding system to a Software Bill of Materials (SBOM) to fund not just the sexy top project, but also the underlying libraries. Aka when you donate to or pay for a project, it would automatically donate to its dependencies as well (like the random person in Nebraska).
What do we think, #fediverse?
@Gina @ethereumfoundation Every project that chooses blockchain as a solution has terrible taste or is a scam.
Every.
Single.
One.
So, hard pass. -
I had such an interesting call today with someone from @ethereumfoundation about funding the #opensource ecosystem.
Basically, connecting a blockchain based funding system to a Software Bill of Materials (SBOM) to fund not just the sexy top project, but also the underlying libraries. Aka when you donate to or pay for a project, it would automatically donate to its dependencies as well (like the random person in Nebraska).
What do we think, #fediverse?
I'm all for the developers at the bottom of the stack getting paid, but when you start talking "blockchain", like most people I'm already skeptical and wondering what flavor of crypto scam this is.
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@bryanredeagle @Gina yup, and there are existing projects that do it sans blockchain like https://thanks.dev
@CosmicHorror @bryanredeagle oh I didn't know this platform yet, thanks for sharing.
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@Gina@fosstodon.org @ethereumfoundation@mastodon.social don't know about the cost, but can't you just basically parse the dependency list and go hunting for liberapay accounts from the dep's readme? lol
@projectmoon @Gina @ethereumfoundation I'm reminded of this article I saw only yesterday: https://www.seangoedecke.com/gas-and-ralph/
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I had such an interesting call today with someone from @ethereumfoundation about funding the #opensource ecosystem.
Basically, connecting a blockchain based funding system to a Software Bill of Materials (SBOM) to fund not just the sexy top project, but also the underlying libraries. Aka when you donate to or pay for a project, it would automatically donate to its dependencies as well (like the random person in Nebraska).
What do we think, #fediverse?
@Gina @ethereumfoundation Ik denk meteen aan Rian van Rijbroek.
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I had such an interesting call today with someone from @ethereumfoundation about funding the #opensource ecosystem.
Basically, connecting a blockchain based funding system to a Software Bill of Materials (SBOM) to fund not just the sexy top project, but also the underlying libraries. Aka when you donate to or pay for a project, it would automatically donate to its dependencies as well (like the random person in Nebraska).
What do we think, #fediverse?
@Gina like many commenters I'm a bit sceptical of the crypto/blockchain part, but I like the idea in general! For funding to reach down to the underlying libraries too
This might even invert the logic of wanting to make an end-user project to get more funds/contributions: now libraries will get more support (that they deserve) when they serve as the support for multiple projects!
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@Gina@fosstodon.org @ethereumfoundation@mastodon.social don't know about the cost, but can't you just basically parse the dependency list and go hunting for liberapay accounts from the dep's readme? lol
@projectmoon @Gina @ethereumfoundation
Im not the one that spoke to OP, but broadly blockchains help in price discovery which can be applied to getting weights across a large dependency graph
for example check out deep.seer.pm where we're trying to distribute $350k across 98 repos and their 3,677 dependencies
there's a genuine need for low overhead in weights to SBOM, unless you prefer government consultants like deloitte deciding how valuable dependencies are?
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@Gina @ethereumfoundation the sexy top project should fund its dependencies
@slink @Gina @ethereumfoundation
Not the EF person OP is referring to, but i think you're alluding to the idea of credibly neutral funding mechanisms! my specific area of work actually. they are basically recommendation algorithms deciding on the value of different contributions
here's the reference you may have seen. still an open question how they can be fair, but it solves a genuine issue of low overhead becoz otherwise consultants like deloitte decide allocation
Credible Neutrality As A Guiding Principle
When building mechanisms that decide high-stakes outcomes, it’s important for those mechanisms to be credibly neutral.
(balajis.com)
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@Gina @ethereumfoundation
I’d say this seems like a legitimate blockchain use case. open source maintainers are globally distributed across jurisdictions/countries.automatic dependency splits across hundreds of recipients with no trusted intermediary is genuinely hard to replicate with traditional payment rails.
Using mandate-generated SBOM data as the funding graph is elegant. The hard unsolved piece is the SBOM to wallet mapping, but that's an identity problem, not a blockchain problem.
@BenDoubleU another issue is also generating accurate SBOMs, as ive found with my work on deep funding (assigning weights to an open source dependency graph)
the 2 key issues were;
1. too many irrelevant dependencies that maintainers dont see valuable
2. some of the key dependencies not being in the SBOM
we actually had to go through 3 iterations before coming up with a proper dependency graph
(not the EF employee OP refers to, but i do work there)
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@Gina I like the concept, not the idea.
1. No part of this proposal needs a blockchain or Ethereum. Proposing this idea is a marketing effort by stapling an attractive idea to the side of an unattractive one.
2. Deriving a contribution-splitting model from an SBOM is interestingly difficult! Even more so if you try to walk a dependency tree instead of a flat list. How are contributions split? Equally among dependencies? Does every library dependency contribute equal value? To whom?
1/2
so one idea we've been working on for determining the split in contributions;
1. host a kaggle sort of data science competition where people predict the value of each dependency in an SBOM
2. collect ground truth data from maintainers for a subset
3. model with least error score gets its weights across entire SBOM
Deep Funding GG24 Web3 Tooling and Infra Round
GG24 Deep Funding Round Update The GG24 Dev Tooling and Web3 Infra Round approved $350,000 for allocation via deep funding, with Devansh Mehta, Clement Lesaege, Allan Niemerg as round operators and Conor Svenson & Andrew…
Gitcoin Governance (gov.gitcoin.co)
(not the EFer OP refers to, but i work on funding mechanisms there)
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@projectmoon @Gina @ethereumfoundation
Im not the one that spoke to OP, but broadly blockchains help in price discovery which can be applied to getting weights across a large dependency graph
for example check out deep.seer.pm where we're trying to distribute $350k across 98 repos and their 3,677 dependencies
there's a genuine need for low overhead in weights to SBOM, unless you prefer government consultants like deloitte deciding how valuable dependencies are?
@devanshmehta@fosstodon.org @Gina@fosstodon.org @ethereumfoundation@mastodon.social how would you deal with repos that have no declared way of receiving funding? Which I assume is most of them?
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