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CIRCLE WITH A DOT

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  3. Pleased to share a page and explainer for the AI tarpit project Science is Poetry, with legal statement, rationale(s), and a few deployment notes:

Pleased to share a page and explainer for the AI tarpit project Science is Poetry, with legal statement, rationale(s), and a few deployment notes:

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bigtech
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  • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

    It's approaching DoS at this point. This just one of the VMs, and just OpenAI's parasite.

    Threading's holding up but need some more tuning of rate limits and burst. Trying sending 429's now to ask them to play nice.

    To think the www was built for people.

    And here we are

    bastelwombat@chaos.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
    bastelwombat@chaos.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
    bastelwombat@chaos.social
    wrote last edited by
    #149

    @JulianOliver Wait, they are still this dumb? Don‘t get me wrong, I like the idea of your project. But I'd expect it to be detected and ignored –* at least by the bigger players. Especially with other projects like this (e.g. Nepenthes) being out for a while already.

    Or maybe the detection happens once the content has been parsed? Can you see how many pages deep an individual crawler goes?

    * yes, a handmade emdash.

    julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ numerfolt@kirche.socialN 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • bastelwombat@chaos.socialB bastelwombat@chaos.social

      @JulianOliver Wait, they are still this dumb? Don‘t get me wrong, I like the idea of your project. But I'd expect it to be detected and ignored –* at least by the bigger players. Especially with other projects like this (e.g. Nepenthes) being out for a while already.

      Or maybe the detection happens once the content has been parsed? Can you see how many pages deep an individual crawler goes?

      * yes, a handmade emdash.

      julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
      julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
      julianoliver@mastodon.social
      wrote last edited by
      #150

      @bastelwombat

      Yesterday's hit count for this project was nearly 1M unique page reads, a tiny proportion (<1%) from humans..

      I trialed the great Nepenthes quite extensively and it was good at hooking but not holding crawlers, not in 2026, as I explain on the project page. Today the big AI crawlers seemingly lose interest in Markov, tire of drip-fed content, & prefer a non dictionary corpus, as they seek content akin to how we humans communicate (typos, made up words, ad hoc emphasis etc).

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

        For any naysayers out there as to how effective all this is, or could be, some recent research shows you can do a lot with a little:

        Link Preview Image
        Poisoning Attacks on LLMs Require a Near-constant Number of Poison Samples

        Abstract page for arXiv paper 2510.07192: Poisoning Attacks on LLMs Require a Near-constant Number of Poison Samples

        favicon

        arXiv.org (arxiv.org)

        Researchers found that a very small corpora of poison content has largely the same impact, regardless of the size of the data in the model itself:

        "We find that 250 poisoned documents similarly compromise models across all model and dataset sizes, despite the largest models training on more than 20 times more clean data."

        mgiraldo@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
        mgiraldo@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
        mgiraldo@mstdn.social
        wrote last edited by
        #151

        @JulianOliver is random data sufficiently poisonous?

        julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • mgiraldo@mstdn.socialM mgiraldo@mstdn.social

          @JulianOliver is random data sufficiently poisonous?

          julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
          julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
          julianoliver@mastodon.social
          wrote last edited by
          #152

          @mgiraldo Answering that in earnest would require knowing more than I do about the unique model training approaches of each LLM. As a guess it may not be as poisonous as Markov content from well know corpuses like popular books, or famous papers. However some of the bigger bots seem good at detecting this, and so drop-off anyway. I had poor retention results this way.

          There may be references, faux terms & partials in randomly produced sentences that could sneak in to training datasets.

          mgiraldo@mstdn.socialM 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • smn@l3ib.orgS smn@l3ib.org

            @JulianOliver done. whatthefuckisgoingonwithmyhorroscope.today now has those records, at least until the domain expires on April 27 2027

            julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
            julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
            julianoliver@mastodon.social
            wrote last edited by
            #153

            @smn You're live!

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

              @mgiraldo Answering that in earnest would require knowing more than I do about the unique model training approaches of each LLM. As a guess it may not be as poisonous as Markov content from well know corpuses like popular books, or famous papers. However some of the bigger bots seem good at detecting this, and so drop-off anyway. I had poor retention results this way.

              There may be references, faux terms & partials in randomly produced sentences that could sneak in to training datasets.

              mgiraldo@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              mgiraldo@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              mgiraldo@mstdn.social
              wrote last edited by
              #154

              @JulianOliver however many poison pills you can introduce are a service to humanity 🫡

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                For any naysayers out there as to how effective all this is, or could be, some recent research shows you can do a lot with a little:

                Link Preview Image
                Poisoning Attacks on LLMs Require a Near-constant Number of Poison Samples

                Abstract page for arXiv paper 2510.07192: Poisoning Attacks on LLMs Require a Near-constant Number of Poison Samples

                favicon

                arXiv.org (arxiv.org)

                Researchers found that a very small corpora of poison content has largely the same impact, regardless of the size of the data in the model itself:

                "We find that 250 poisoned documents similarly compromise models across all model and dataset sizes, despite the largest models training on more than 20 times more clean data."

                julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                julianoliver@mastodon.social
                wrote last edited by
                #155

                Ye gads it's gone absolutely silly.

                I spent a good part of my morning trying to work out if it was a veiled DoS or actual harvesting while keeping the thing up. Status codes are good, 96.5% are real page reads from the usual AI crawler suspects.

                A big network in Singapore with "www.google.com" (but not GoogleBot) User Agent string is responsible for some of it. But the rest is just frantic feeding.

                Server is running hot. To keep it up I'm having to further tune ratelimiting, bursts etc.

                alex27@infosec.exchangeA malte@anticapitalist.partyM julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ feral_3d@mastodon.socialF 4 Replies Last reply
                0
                • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                  Ye gads it's gone absolutely silly.

                  I spent a good part of my morning trying to work out if it was a veiled DoS or actual harvesting while keeping the thing up. Status codes are good, 96.5% are real page reads from the usual AI crawler suspects.

                  A big network in Singapore with "www.google.com" (but not GoogleBot) User Agent string is responsible for some of it. But the rest is just frantic feeding.

                  Server is running hot. To keep it up I'm having to further tune ratelimiting, bursts etc.

                  alex27@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
                  alex27@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
                  alex27@infosec.exchange
                  wrote last edited by
                  #156

                  @JulianOliver hey, is that ok to leave a link to science poetry from some of my pages?

                  julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • alex27@infosec.exchangeA alex27@infosec.exchange

                    @JulianOliver hey, is that ok to leave a link to science poetry from some of my pages?

                    julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                    julianoliver@mastodon.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #157

                    @alex27 Please do, that's what it's there for!

                    alex27@infosec.exchangeA 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                      @alex27 Please do, that's what it's there for!

                      alex27@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
                      alex27@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
                      alex27@infosec.exchange
                      wrote last edited by
                      #158

                      @JulianOliver thanks! Asking since it's not clear to what extent system is operational and rather there are problems with performance so far. Didn't want to put the last straw.

                      julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • alex27@infosec.exchangeA alex27@infosec.exchange

                        @JulianOliver thanks! Asking since it's not clear to what extent system is operational and rather there are problems with performance so far. Didn't want to put the last straw.

                        julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        julianoliver@mastodon.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #159

                        @alex27 Fully operational yes, thanks for asking. The system is under a lot of load but still has some room. I will tune so it can serve even more if it needs to.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                          Ye gads it's gone absolutely silly.

                          I spent a good part of my morning trying to work out if it was a veiled DoS or actual harvesting while keeping the thing up. Status codes are good, 96.5% are real page reads from the usual AI crawler suspects.

                          A big network in Singapore with "www.google.com" (but not GoogleBot) User Agent string is responsible for some of it. But the rest is just frantic feeding.

                          Server is running hot. To keep it up I'm having to further tune ratelimiting, bursts etc.

                          malte@anticapitalist.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                          malte@anticapitalist.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                          malte@anticapitalist.party
                          wrote last edited by
                          #160

                          @JulianOliver you probably wrote it somewhere, but i can't find: what's the tool for visualizing the log output?

                          julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • malte@anticapitalist.partyM malte@anticapitalist.party

                            @JulianOliver you probably wrote it somewhere, but i can't find: what's the tool for visualizing the log output?

                            julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                            julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                            julianoliver@mastodon.social
                            wrote last edited by
                            #161

                            @malte I'm using `rhit` from Dystroy. The stock amd64 binary doesn't come with SHA sum, so you may want to use their repo or download and inspect somewhere safe first.

                            malte@anticapitalist.partyM 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                              Ye gads it's gone absolutely silly.

                              I spent a good part of my morning trying to work out if it was a veiled DoS or actual harvesting while keeping the thing up. Status codes are good, 96.5% are real page reads from the usual AI crawler suspects.

                              A big network in Singapore with "www.google.com" (but not GoogleBot) User Agent string is responsible for some of it. But the rest is just frantic feeding.

                              Server is running hot. To keep it up I'm having to further tune ratelimiting, bursts etc.

                              julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              julianoliver@mastodon.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #162

                              I've added these kindly donated new domains to the ridiculous landing page at https://scienceispoetry.net/

                              - poesie.kornshell.xyz
                              - whatthefuckisgoingonwithmyhorroscope.today
                              - poetry.danielarmengol.com
                              - poetry.usolab.com
                              - poetry.pinchito.com
                              - poetry.interactionphilia.com

                              julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ lowtech@tldr.nettime.orgL 2 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                                @malte I'm using `rhit` from Dystroy. The stock amd64 binary doesn't come with SHA sum, so you may want to use their repo or download and inspect somewhere safe first.

                                malte@anticapitalist.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                                malte@anticapitalist.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                                malte@anticapitalist.party
                                wrote last edited by
                                #163

                                @JulianOliver ah yes! dystroy's tools are so cool!!! ✨

                                (i forgot about rhit because it's not in the debian repos, yet 😅)

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                                  I've added these kindly donated new domains to the ridiculous landing page at https://scienceispoetry.net/

                                  - poesie.kornshell.xyz
                                  - whatthefuckisgoingonwithmyhorroscope.today
                                  - poetry.danielarmengol.com
                                  - poetry.usolab.com
                                  - poetry.pinchito.com
                                  - poetry.interactionphilia.com

                                  julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  julianoliver@mastodon.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #164

                                  I've done the log analysis and the two biggest contributors that brought the AI crawler hits up to 2 million in a day, a 4x increase on a week prior, are ByteSpider (Singapore networks) and especially AppleBot (used for Siri and other Apple products).

                                  The parasites.txt is now >4500 lines long:

                                  https://scienceispoetry.net/files/parasites.txt

                                  gregsted@mastodon.xyzG 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                                    I've added these kindly donated new domains to the ridiculous landing page at https://scienceispoetry.net/

                                    - poesie.kornshell.xyz
                                    - whatthefuckisgoingonwithmyhorroscope.today
                                    - poetry.danielarmengol.com
                                    - poetry.usolab.com
                                    - poetry.pinchito.com
                                    - poetry.interactionphilia.com

                                    lowtech@tldr.nettime.orgL This user is from outside of this forum
                                    lowtech@tldr.nettime.orgL This user is from outside of this forum
                                    lowtech@tldr.nettime.org
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #165

                                    @JulianOliver For me, this text suggests the informational equivalent of "window"—fluttering strips of reflective chaff, intended to attract attention and confuse.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                                      I've done the log analysis and the two biggest contributors that brought the AI crawler hits up to 2 million in a day, a 4x increase on a week prior, are ByteSpider (Singapore networks) and especially AppleBot (used for Siri and other Apple products).

                                      The parasites.txt is now >4500 lines long:

                                      https://scienceispoetry.net/files/parasites.txt

                                      gregsted@mastodon.xyzG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      gregsted@mastodon.xyzG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      gregsted@mastodon.xyz
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #166

                                      @JulianOliver Interesting. I did not expect Apple to start showing up in this rogues gallery.

                                      julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • gregsted@mastodon.xyzG gregsted@mastodon.xyz

                                        @JulianOliver Interesting. I did not expect Apple to start showing up in this rogues gallery.

                                        julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                        julianoliver@mastodon.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #167

                                        @gregsted They are throwing a lot of cycles at it, a swarm of ~2000 individual endpoints. Nearly 2 days of furious feeding now. I'm very surprised. I don't know why so much is being spent on this content; why there is no human oversight, to then just pull the plug on their end

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ julianoliver@mastodon.social

                                          Ye gads it's gone absolutely silly.

                                          I spent a good part of my morning trying to work out if it was a veiled DoS or actual harvesting while keeping the thing up. Status codes are good, 96.5% are real page reads from the usual AI crawler suspects.

                                          A big network in Singapore with "www.google.com" (but not GoogleBot) User Agent string is responsible for some of it. But the rest is just frantic feeding.

                                          Server is running hot. To keep it up I'm having to further tune ratelimiting, bursts etc.

                                          feral_3d@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                          feral_3d@mastodon.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                          feral_3d@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #168

                                          @JulianOliver Why are they feeding so aggressively? There isn't that much for them to feed on, is there?

                                          julianoliver@mastodon.socialJ 1 Reply Last reply
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