i think society would be better if they just handed out money to people no questions asked, but i suppose it's true some people might use it to be happy
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@datenwolf @dalias @aeva would you go clean streets if they offered you money for that instead? I guess the amount is not relevant because everybody who makes food just does it cause they want to
@Profpatsch @dalias @aeva it's not about the money.
It's about the amount of grant hustling I've to do. And I think that there genuinely are people who enjoy cleaning streets.
And for that matter, a lot of years ago I visited an open house event of the Munich municipal waste water management, and I actually thought that it was a pretty interesting workplace.
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ok i saw that post going around about how nobody can fucking read but come on guys this is not at all the status quo of neoliberal economics take your head out of your ass
I wonder what's going on over in the bizarre parallel universe where american libraries are for-profit institutions and Ben Franklin established a tradition of voluntary sanitation jobs instead.
[meanwhile in the bizarre parallel universe where american libraries are for-profit institutions and Ben Franklin established a tradition of voluntary sanitation jobs instead] my fellow armchair philosophers, concerned: but who will organize books without the threat of poverty to motivate them?
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When have I ever suggested that big politics was a solution? You and I agree on similar goals, but I look at money is completely different animal from the way you think about it.
For me, the fundamentals were coming the way you're thinking is that controlling the amount of money is the same as limiting oligarchy. Oligarchy is about politics, not commodities. Commodities are the medium.
i am all for mutual aid networks, worker coops, etc... to build an open source economy and open source supply chain and organize bottom up to create a living alternative to epstein cqpitalist class oligarchy controlled mega corporations.
BUT, its not that ppl havent tried worker coops, etc... in the past. This will only work if we ALSO in parallel turn off their biggest class privilege which is money printing, otherwise they will use it to undermine alternatives
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i am all for mutual aid networks, worker coops, etc... to build an open source economy and open source supply chain and organize bottom up to create a living alternative to epstein cqpitalist class oligarchy controlled mega corporations.
BUT, its not that ppl havent tried worker coops, etc... in the past. This will only work if we ALSO in parallel turn off their biggest class privilege which is money printing, otherwise they will use it to undermine alternatives
โ๏ธControl of financing is politics. And I know you want to believe that bitcoin solves this problem, but the evidence on the ground points exactly the opposite direction.
I now know substantially interesting bits of history plus have a little more reading about money systems (Knapp is very badly represented for instance. He never said money was only the product of a state).
There is no substitute for the egalitarian ethic expressed as egalitarian power distribution.
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I wonder what's going on over in the bizarre parallel universe where american libraries are for-profit institutions and Ben Franklin established a tradition of voluntary sanitation jobs instead.
[meanwhile in the bizarre parallel universe where american libraries are for-profit institutions and Ben Franklin established a tradition of voluntary sanitation jobs instead] my fellow armchair philosophers, concerned: but who will organize books without the threat of poverty to motivate them?
@aeva do you want books where every single page is watermarked with an ad? cuz this is how you get every single page of a book watermarked with an ad
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@aeva do you want books where every single page is watermarked with an ad? cuz this is how you get every single page of a book watermarked with an ad
@pupxel it'll just work out! my friend andy loves books
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@pupxel it'll just work out! my friend andy loves books
@aeva don't suppose andy has a toy cowboy and a space ranger?
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i think society would be better if they just handed out money to people no questions asked, but i suppose it's true some people might use it to be happy
@aeva Basically every study on this agrees with you ("universal basic income" is always at least "meh" or sometimes "way fucking better" depending on the study and circumstances).
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I wonder what's going on over in the bizarre parallel universe where american libraries are for-profit institutions and Ben Franklin established a tradition of voluntary sanitation jobs instead.
[meanwhile in the bizarre parallel universe where american libraries are for-profit institutions and Ben Franklin established a tradition of voluntary sanitation jobs instead] my fellow armchair philosophers, concerned: but who will organize books without the threat of poverty to motivate them?
@aeva imagine the Buc-ee's library
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Control of financing is politics. And I know you want to believe that bitcoin solves this problem, but the evidence on the ground points exactly the opposite direction.
I now know substantially interesting bits of history plus have a little more reading about money systems (Knapp is very badly represented for instance. He never said money was only the product of a state).
There is no substitute for the egalitarian ethic expressed as egalitarian power distribution.
โ๏ธ he sovereign is us the people.
we can make and change structures to work towards whats best for us the people."control of financing"m is politics". sounds abstract and is that how epstein billionaires became rich? is that the rising right in europe? is that trump? ... bitcoin is politics too and a very specific policy.
I dont see that politics is in charge of anything other than storytelling, but you seem to see it differently.
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โ๏ธ he sovereign is us the people.
we can make and change structures to work towards whats best for us the people."control of financing"m is politics". sounds abstract and is that how epstein billionaires became rich? is that the rising right in europe? is that trump? ... bitcoin is politics too and a very specific policy.
I dont see that politics is in charge of anything other than storytelling, but you seem to see it differently.
so are you imagining the parties and MPs we vote for will magically fix the system? ...theoretically possible of course, but you seem to see a path towards that, which i find extremely surprising to say the least. i'm not against it, but i just think that is impossible. The K-shaped economy will just continue and we waste precious time imho
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@datenwolf @dalias @aeva would you go clean streets if they offered you money for that instead? I guess the amount is not relevant because everybody who makes food just does it cause they want to
@Profpatsch @datenwolf @aeva There are more than enough people who would go clean up streets now and then or regularly for a little extra money if they weren't forced to be scrambling for the necessities to stay alive and had the freedom (and thereby respect) to choose if/when to do it.
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@Profpatsch @datenwolf @aeva There are more than enough people who would go clean up streets now and then or regularly for a little extra money if they weren't forced to be scrambling for the necessities to stay alive and had the freedom (and thereby respect) to choose if/when to do it.
@Profpatsch @datenwolf @dalias @aeva
I've cleaned streets for zero money. Because idk I wanted to live in an area with clean streets I guess
And honestly if i could trade tech work for cleaning streets and still afford the cost of living then I would probably make that trade. I just don't know how to get a living wage cleaning streets (and jump through the hoops that is getting employment anywhere in this economy)
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I'll happily spend 40 hours a week doing science. What really grinds my gears is all the bureaucracy BS hustling for grant money.
Just give me a lab and a yearly total budget of ~250000โฌ for buying stuff, paying contractors and paying my salary from, and allow me to carry any leftover into the next fiscal year. I'll churn out royalty free medical imaging tech.
Likewise, I'll make you a diagnostic test or biomarker assay for anything you want, just gimme a lab and a budget and let me work.
Isn't this the dream for most scientists?
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@dalias @datenwolf @aeva We'd be better off if most people did no work except cleaning up after themselves.
How much work does your pet cat do? Yet they bring joy to your life.
Honestly, I think it would cost society less if certain people didn't work. Aside from people who currently work in normal jobs but don't do anything to a high enough standard as to avoid someone redoing their work... There are entire industries where I would like to pay everyone to retire permanently.
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@aeva Most of the work people in my industry do makes my life, and the world at large, much worse. I would be happy if they just stopped working. We have the technology for the world to operate with maybe 10% of people working 5-20 hour work weeks when they want extra money or want to do things that excite them and everyone else just refraining from making the world worse and doing non work things that make it better as they like.
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@Robotistry @raven @mym @aeva some people would definitely enjoy doing those jobs, or at least care about them enough to do them anyway. Without capitalist exploitation, a lot of the currently shitty jobs would be much nicer to do, too.
Especially with medical records, there's very likely people whose special interest that would be.
