Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris.
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl Thinking in "time travel movie", it actually could have been worse, too. You'd never be able to convince people that all this would have happened, they'd have been even more pissed about Gaza, repubs win presidency and supermajorities in senate and house, and there are NO brakes on anything.
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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we can do better when people vote
and if they didn't vote due to entitlement and indolence and toxic idealism airhead bullshit, we have a right to call them out
it is not possible to move forward without identifying our failures
so if you look away from that, you're a force for the status quo
i don't think you are for the status quo
but i do think your instincts here are not as noble as you think
nonvoters are stupid losers helping fascism
say it with me
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taran you know me
i yell at everyone
that's not a virtue
but it is something like a virtue if it focuses attention on what needs to be done
it needs to be done
you can't have the future we both want without fighting our failures
it is not a noble instinct to not fight them
it is an oversight of a tactical necessity, an oversight that sabotages our goals
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I understand where you are all coming from.
I do not see this as productive.
I see no one mentioned Gaza.
The reality is that systems did not give good choices. To say otherwise is to deny the real issue.
Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Passion harnessed should be pushed toward the future, not used to calcify the past.
We can do better. We should do better. So let's do better. Please.
@knowprose @benroyce @Enea90 @randahl
> Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Good Lord no. I mean, this message mostly has worth for Americans, so I don't non-Americans giving it a pass.
But I am an American, and I fucked up in 2000 by not making sure my vote and my activism kept the Republican out of the presidency, and I learned my lesson. I hope others will take something similar from 2024.
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@knowprose @benroyce @Enea90 @randahl
> Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Good Lord no. I mean, this message mostly has worth for Americans, so I don't non-Americans giving it a pass.
But I am an American, and I fucked up in 2000 by not making sure my vote and my activism kept the Republican out of the presidency, and I learned my lesson. I hope others will take something similar from 2024.
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taran you know me
i yell at everyone
that's not a virtue
but it is something like a virtue if it focuses attention on what needs to be done
it needs to be done
you can't have the future we both want without fighting our failures
it is not a noble instinct to not fight them
it is an oversight of a tactical necessity, an oversight that sabotages our goals
@benroyce @Enea90 @randahl I cannot tell anyone else what to say or do. I hold no moral high ground over anyone... I am imperfick.
I cannot in good conscience yell at people for making what I perceive as mistakes. I cannot tell them what they did wrong when I myself am uncertain.
All I can do is *ask* people to try to do better as I do. Politely, respectfully, factually.
So I do. And I listen.
So I am sorry for injecting myself where that does not seem welcome.
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl the whole world would have remained happier ...
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@knowprose @benroyce @Enea90 @randahl
> Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Good Lord no. I mean, this message mostly has worth for Americans, so I don't non-Americans giving it a pass.
But I am an American, and I fucked up in 2000 by not making sure my vote and my activism kept the Republican out of the presidency, and I learned my lesson. I hope others will take something similar from 2024.
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@benroyce @Enea90 @randahl I cannot tell anyone else what to say or do. I hold no moral high ground over anyone... I am imperfick.
I cannot in good conscience yell at people for making what I perceive as mistakes. I cannot tell them what they did wrong when I myself am uncertain.
All I can do is *ask* people to try to do better as I do. Politely, respectfully, factually.
So I do. And I listen.
So I am sorry for injecting myself where that does not seem welcome.
that's your way. it's a perfectly fine way. i respect it
you don't have to respect my way
but i will speak in my defense:
we don't have the time
if someone needs a kick in the ass, i will kick them in the fucking ass
the house is on fire, it's not time for chit chat
nonvoters need to learn to fucking #vote
nobody has the time for the 10,000 years of respectful dialog it would take to motivate some hopeless lumps to understand their inaction only aids #fascism
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@nando161 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
well what they do is they spend billions to destroy it. they do very much intend to make voting illegal. you are in fact identifying their very real intention. you can see them proposing laws to make voting more and more difficult right now, until they snuff it out
*because voting does fucking change things*
anyone who didn't vote for harris because "BoTh SiDeS tHe SaMe" is a fucking moron responsible for the shit we are going through right now
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
an admirable analysis but flawed
Harris was even more a tool of the israeli lobby and an emboldened Israel would have caused even more havoc and suffering than it is now
and the genocide would have continued at the 100 deaths per day as it started under Biden
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl If Democrats won most of Europe would still be boiling in that kettle. Because megacorps still pay democrats.
While dems are much much better than reps, it's unrealistic to say that voting dems would solve all of our problems.
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl Respectfully, the electoral college picks the president in the United States, not the popular vote (see Bush v Gore).
Harris never did anything as vice president that implied she'd be good at anything except talking in circles.
I'm not political, but I'm familiar with the names.
Wars happen because banks want to lock countries into further debt and/or establish their central bank in the "bad guy" country.
Your politician is just the influencer face of the machine.
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@knowprose @jztusk @Enea90 @randahl
you stepped in it so you will hear our response
if the dog shits in the kitchen, rubbing their noses in it is unproductive, but so is patiently explaining to a dog who does not speak the problem with shitting in the kitchen
at the very least, they learn from your angry frustrated expression when they see you see their shit
that is the language they understand
while endlessly coddling them means they just keep shitting in the kitchen and learn nothing
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl she would have carried on supporting Israel in its genocide though so that was unsupportable. The least bad is too bad when it includes genocidal Zionism.
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl populism is democracy. Kamala lost because she wasn’t popular. Democrats aren’t popular because they support elites, without the mechanism of cognitive dissonance that the Republicans employ. Democrats simply ask us to say This is Fine while the house burns. Republicans sic the plebes on the people who fight the fire starters. True populism is the solution to both of those, and also why we haven’t really seen it.
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@nando161 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
must be nice to be so content while we slide to fascism
to see democracy vs fascism and see no difference is certainly one hell of a radioactive expression of profound stupidity or malice
is it that you don't care? or don't know?
or perhaps you prefer fascism, and hide behind high minded expressions of what is still essentially completely moronic bullshit while you cheer on your own doom?
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl probably, she would have supported (or at the least would not have acted against) the shift from fossil fuels. And that is the main reason we have extreme right politicians in power around the world: safeguard oil profits. (Watch the rise of the oil prices the coming days…)
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@knowprose @jztusk @Enea90 @randahl
you stepped in it so you will hear our response
if the dog shits in the kitchen, rubbing their noses in it is unproductive, but so is patiently explaining to a dog who does not speak the problem with shitting in the kitchen
at the very least, they learn from your angry frustrated expression when they see you see their shit
that is the language they understand
while endlessly coddling them means they just keep shitting in the kitchen and learn nothing
@benroyce @jztusk @Enea90 @randahl
Well. You want me, you got me. I asked politely to step out.
*rolls up newspaper*
Are you affecting anyone other than those who agree with you? Just value signaling?
Is that changing any minds?
No.
Is your value signaling alienating to people?
I imagine so.
No one is your dog.
I am not your dog.
You are not mine.
*puts down newspaper and walks away.*
Your move.
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl Yes, but while she might eventually have listened to the public, she wasn't strong against Gaza, which is *SO* much worse than Trump declaring that they should speed up the genocide and definitely worth throwing away our entire democracy to prevent.
Well, that and the fact she might have been just generally competent instead of unleashing unhinged threats against corporations and other countries at random while trying to start WWIII. Who wouldn't want that? We're SO much better off!
