Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris.
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@randahl I... whut? Who was President in 2014? (Doubly applicable for both Ukraine and Syria.)
Which President did Denmark wiretap its EU neighbours for?
Which President limited the weapons range and aid for Ukraine?
Who is Jake Sullivan?
Who is Ben Rhodes?etc. etc.
i can't tell if you're being sarcastic
if you are, exactly: this moronic whataboutism is all too common
if you aren't being sarcastic:
you have to use a sarcasm indicator, because there are vatnik losers, right here on mastodon, peddling this stupid shit, and we don't know you
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl
Bigotry denied all that -
R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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the point of history is to teach us, not for us to wallow in it
i agree with you we shouldn't litigate the past, we should live in the present and focus on the future
however!
all those who didn't vote, or voted for MAGA, need their fucking faces rubbed into what they did
the present we live in is a direct consequence of their very recent choices
asshole entitled nonvoters and sadistic stupid MAGA need to feel that burn
for some fuckwits, this is the only way they learn
I understand where you are all coming from.
I do not see this as productive.
I see no one mentioned Gaza.
The reality is that systems did not give good choices. To say otherwise is to deny the real issue.
Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Passion harnessed should be pushed toward the future, not used to calcify the past.
We can do better. We should do better. So let's do better. Please.
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl Sure but as we say in german "hätte hätte Fahrradkette"
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I understand where you are all coming from.
I do not see this as productive.
I see no one mentioned Gaza.
The reality is that systems did not give good choices. To say otherwise is to deny the real issue.
Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Passion harnessed should be pushed toward the future, not used to calcify the past.
We can do better. We should do better. So let's do better. Please.
we can do better when people vote
and if they didn't vote due to entitlement and indolence and toxic idealism airhead bullshit, we have a right to call them out
it is not possible to move forward without identifying our failures
so if you look away from that, you're a force for the status quo
i don't think you are for the status quo
but i do think your instincts here are not as noble as you think
nonvoters are stupid losers helping fascism
say it with me
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@randahl Sure but as we say in german "hätte hätte Fahrradkette"
@jzakotnik in Danish: "Hvis og hvis, min røv var spids."
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl my friend help us
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl Thinking in "time travel movie", it actually could have been worse, too. You'd never be able to convince people that all this would have happened, they'd have been even more pissed about Gaza, repubs win presidency and supermajorities in senate and house, and there are NO brakes on anything.
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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we can do better when people vote
and if they didn't vote due to entitlement and indolence and toxic idealism airhead bullshit, we have a right to call them out
it is not possible to move forward without identifying our failures
so if you look away from that, you're a force for the status quo
i don't think you are for the status quo
but i do think your instincts here are not as noble as you think
nonvoters are stupid losers helping fascism
say it with me
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taran you know me
i yell at everyone
that's not a virtue
but it is something like a virtue if it focuses attention on what needs to be done
it needs to be done
you can't have the future we both want without fighting our failures
it is not a noble instinct to not fight them
it is an oversight of a tactical necessity, an oversight that sabotages our goals
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I understand where you are all coming from.
I do not see this as productive.
I see no one mentioned Gaza.
The reality is that systems did not give good choices. To say otherwise is to deny the real issue.
Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Passion harnessed should be pushed toward the future, not used to calcify the past.
We can do better. We should do better. So let's do better. Please.
@knowprose @benroyce @Enea90 @randahl
> Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Good Lord no. I mean, this message mostly has worth for Americans, so I don't non-Americans giving it a pass.
But I am an American, and I fucked up in 2000 by not making sure my vote and my activism kept the Republican out of the presidency, and I learned my lesson. I hope others will take something similar from 2024.
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@knowprose @benroyce @Enea90 @randahl
> Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Good Lord no. I mean, this message mostly has worth for Americans, so I don't non-Americans giving it a pass.
But I am an American, and I fucked up in 2000 by not making sure my vote and my activism kept the Republican out of the presidency, and I learned my lesson. I hope others will take something similar from 2024.
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taran you know me
i yell at everyone
that's not a virtue
but it is something like a virtue if it focuses attention on what needs to be done
it needs to be done
you can't have the future we both want without fighting our failures
it is not a noble instinct to not fight them
it is an oversight of a tactical necessity, an oversight that sabotages our goals
@benroyce @Enea90 @randahl I cannot tell anyone else what to say or do. I hold no moral high ground over anyone... I am imperfick.
I cannot in good conscience yell at people for making what I perceive as mistakes. I cannot tell them what they did wrong when I myself am uncertain.
All I can do is *ask* people to try to do better as I do. Politely, respectfully, factually.
So I do. And I listen.
So I am sorry for injecting myself where that does not seem welcome.
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl the whole world would have remained happier ...
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@knowprose @benroyce @Enea90 @randahl
> Saying the path not taken would have been better seems moot.
Good Lord no. I mean, this message mostly has worth for Americans, so I don't non-Americans giving it a pass.
But I am an American, and I fucked up in 2000 by not making sure my vote and my activism kept the Republican out of the presidency, and I learned my lesson. I hope others will take something similar from 2024.
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@benroyce @Enea90 @randahl I cannot tell anyone else what to say or do. I hold no moral high ground over anyone... I am imperfick.
I cannot in good conscience yell at people for making what I perceive as mistakes. I cannot tell them what they did wrong when I myself am uncertain.
All I can do is *ask* people to try to do better as I do. Politely, respectfully, factually.
So I do. And I listen.
So I am sorry for injecting myself where that does not seem welcome.
that's your way. it's a perfectly fine way. i respect it
you don't have to respect my way
but i will speak in my defense:
we don't have the time
if someone needs a kick in the ass, i will kick them in the fucking ass
the house is on fire, it's not time for chit chat
nonvoters need to learn to fucking #vote
nobody has the time for the 10,000 years of respectful dialog it would take to motivate some hopeless lumps to understand their inaction only aids #fascism
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@nando161 @knowprose @Enea90 @randahl
well what they do is they spend billions to destroy it. they do very much intend to make voting illegal. you are in fact identifying their very real intention. you can see them proposing laws to make voting more and more difficult right now, until they snuff it out
*because voting does fucking change things*
anyone who didn't vote for harris because "BoTh SiDeS tHe SaMe" is a fucking moron responsible for the shit we are going through right now
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
an admirable analysis but flawed
Harris was even more a tool of the israeli lobby and an emboldened Israel would have caused even more havoc and suffering than it is now
and the genocide would have continued at the 100 deaths per day as it started under Biden
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Imagine if US voters had picked Kamala Harris. She would have continued the Ukraine weapons support, she would have kept the strong alliances with Europe, and she would never have killed the Iran nuclear deal.
Together we could have forced Putin out of Ukraine, there would have been no new, wider war in The Middle East, and the NATO alliance would have been stronger than ever. And in that situation, I think our economies would have been considerably stronger too.
Populism derailed all that.
@randahl If Democrats won most of Europe would still be boiling in that kettle. Because megacorps still pay democrats.
While dems are much much better than reps, it's unrealistic to say that voting dems would solve all of our problems.
