For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose.
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@codemonkeymike But as a mod on a particular german unix-board i have strong feelings for hot takes like "With Linux/*BSD or so you can easily run two browsers with dozen of open tabs, a big Libreoffice-File, a video and some other stuff simoultanisly on two QHD displays with a 15 year old low-end-rig fast and good.
And tbh - cheap-ass hardware of that age was sometimes not only slow even for that age but also buggy (think 64 bitcpu 32bit UEFI) and often didn't age well also.
@codemonkeymike For a unspecific desktop-use-case my lowest recommendation would be at least an i5 4.th gen, 16 Gigs of RAM and a somewhat fast sata-ssd. A slightly-newer mid-size GPU might also be nice add on to relieve the cpu a bit.
Than extensive test should be done, like at least a 8h CPU & GPU Burnin-Test, a complete memtest86 runthrough and a look at the SMART values is always worth the time.
For a notebook i would go newer, depending a lot an the specific specs
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@codemonkeymike Sometimes I feel like I live in a bubble. I teach kids (12-20), and by far the most of them have never even heard of Linux. It's win or mac for them - there is no third option
Don't worry - young people mostly want two things: (1) the same as their fellows, (2) no hassle whatsoever.
Yet, they grow older and more individual - and that's the moment to show them the power of linux.
Because that's its real strength: you can **DO** something with it.
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@codemonkeymike Sometimes I feel like I live in a bubble. I teach kids (12-20), and by far the most of them have never even heard of Linux. It's win or mac for them - there is no third option
Don't worry - young people mostly want two things: (1) the same as their fellows, (2) no hassle whatsoever.
Yet, they grow older and more individual - and that's the moment to show them the power of linux.
Because that's its real strength: you can **DO** something with it.
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@codemonkeymike I would go further and say it is Linux vs lobbyists and a monopoly
Many people don't want to use Linux or simply can't. One part does not want to learn new things and is trying to get along with Windows
Another side rely on programs that are only developed for Windows. Developers need to learn to rewrite programs for Linux, not because they don't know how to program but because they focus on range what currently implies to rely on a closed-source, cooperate driven operating system
The last side is influenced by lobbying, bought by Microsoft and earning money. Or is controlled by someone who is a great "investor" of Microsoft
Most times I have seen people rejecting Linux were reasoned with "too small" or "Not much supported". That "too small" part includes developers and end-users so just another discussion killer
@cryptolatios curious what apps normal people need that aren't on Linux?
I've given away thousands of Linux machines, and only in a small handful of times did someone need an app that isn't on Linux. Seriously.
I'm sure it depends on your audience. My audience are normal low tech users that basically just need something with a web browser, file manager, maybe something like spotify of text editing.
Linux has that easily
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@codemonkeymike Typing this on an early 2006 macbook running LinuxMint 21 XFCE.
This macbook is so old that it does not run a full implementation UEFI and needed rEFIt to allow the computer to boot into Linux.
We have two 2008 macbooks also running the same OS that didn't need this workaround.
@the_wub oh nice!! I remember rEFI!
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@codemonkeymike In a just world Microsoft executives and shareholders would be punished for the e-waste they are responsible for.
@babor don't forget Apple.. i'd argue they're even worse
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@purrperl @thegardendude @codemonkeymike
NixOS doesn't require traditional scripting. Instead of writing imperative shell scripts to install packages or configure services, you define your entire system's desired state in a declarative configuration file using the Nix language.This means you declare what your system should look like (e.g., "I want Firefox and a web server enabled"), and NixOS handles the "how" automatically. This approach provides powerful benefits like reproducibility, atomic upgrades, and easy rollbacks, replacing ad-hoc scripts with a single, version-controllable source of truth.
There is no other way..
@zer0unplanned @thegardendude @codemonkeymike
I get the basic idea behind nixOS and its scripting language that handles configuration. I'm planning to replace the nix language with Ruby/Perl, since those languages are already known, and it would save people the trouble of learning the nix language, and would draw more people in to nixOS.
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@Elizafox true but that's few and far between in my experience. But yes this does happen.
@codemonkeymike if it's from before 2010 or so, and it has wifi, the likelihood of it working (properly) declines rapidly unfortunately.
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@cryptolatios curious what apps normal people need that aren't on Linux?
I've given away thousands of Linux machines, and only in a small handful of times did someone need an app that isn't on Linux. Seriously.
I'm sure it depends on your audience. My audience are normal low tech users that basically just need something with a web browser, file manager, maybe something like spotify of text editing.
Linux has that easily
@codemonkeymike @cryptolatios I don't consider myself a particularly high-end computer user but I do use one specific Microsoft program a lot (Access for databases) and have never found anything comparable on Linux. (I don't want to spend all my time fumbling with trying to program in SQL when all I want to do is store, sort, filter and retrieve data).
That said, that's the only thing that Windows does that Linux can't. Even some very specialised software I use has a Linux version available.
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@anatudor @vwestlife @codemonkeymike There is a whole generation of senior citizens who made the effort to achieve basic IT literacy around the early 2000s but have only ever used Windows. I find they are the most resistant to change, and will often cling stubbornly to old Windows installs packed with malware. In the end if you can get them to try something like an Xfce desktop with LibreOffice they will eventually feel right at home.
@kbm0 @anatudor @vwestlife I've showed 70 year olds nixbook (which is basically Linux mint cinnamon) and they just get it. Zero training needed
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@zer0unplanned @thegardendude @codemonkeymike
I get the basic idea behind nixOS and its scripting language that handles configuration. I'm planning to replace the nix language with Ruby/Perl, since those languages are already known, and it would save people the trouble of learning the nix language, and would draw more people in to nixOS.
@purrperl @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @thegardendude @codemonkeymike
Have a look at #guix, maybe just help increase the number of packages and services available there... Scheme is a pretty easy to learn language and widely taught in CS education.
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@codemonkeymike @cryptolatios I don't consider myself a particularly high-end computer user but I do use one specific Microsoft program a lot (Access for databases) and have never found anything comparable on Linux. (I don't want to spend all my time fumbling with trying to program in SQL when all I want to do is store, sort, filter and retrieve data).
That said, that's the only thing that Windows does that Linux can't. Even some very specialised software I use has a Linux version available.
@Daveosaurus @cryptolatios as always, use what works for you. If youre attached to Ms access, there ya go.
But I def know Linux has programs like that. Libreoffice Base being one of them. Have you tried that yet
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@codemonkeymike@fosstodon.org I've got a modern Linux on a Pentium III laptop. It's not great, but if I'm just wanting to write on it, or code on it, certainly a useful device. If the battery was good, it would basically be very nice option for me. Sadly, I get about 15 minutes out of the battery, and replacements are more than the machine is worth.
@JigmeDatse @codemonkeymike sometimes getting unofficial battery replacement can be worth the gamble. I got mine from AliExpress, Amazon or eBay. Did it 3 times over the years and they survived for over 2-3 years. The cost usually is around 20-30€
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@cryptolatios curious what apps normal people need that aren't on Linux?
I've given away thousands of Linux machines, and only in a small handful of times did someone need an app that isn't on Linux. Seriously.
I'm sure it depends on your audience. My audience are normal low tech users that basically just need something with a web browser, file manager, maybe something like spotify of text editing.
Linux has that easily
@codemonkeymike Normal people don't need special apps. I have even installed Linux Mint on my parents computer. Only complain so far: No ads in the card game for toilet breaks. Lol
I'm only concerned about driver update software for the navigation system or dashcam. I will probably use a VM for that later. But besides of that connecting iPhone and PC and printer to PC work even betterBut if you look at labor you are basically forced to use the Microsoft crap even when it is only mail, calendar, word and browser, you need to use what the company want, not what you want
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@JigmeDatse @codemonkeymike sometimes getting unofficial battery replacement can be worth the gamble. I got mine from AliExpress, Amazon or eBay. Did it 3 times over the years and they survived for over 2-3 years. The cost usually is around 20-30€
@lpryszcz In my opinion a battery upgrade for a Pentium III isn't not worth it (if it's not for sentimental reasons): the performance/power consumption ration, important for mobile use, of cheap Core i5 machines is a lot better (not to mention the need to use 64bit binaries).
@JigmeDatse @codemonkeymike -
@kbm0 @anatudor @vwestlife I've showed 70 year olds nixbook (which is basically Linux mint cinnamon) and they just get it. Zero training needed
@codemonkeymike @kbm0 @vwestlife Well, I was cautious.
My dad has come screaming to me "what is this crap, get it off my screen" because of an update notification. I see it when I happen to sit near him to help him though something. He just doesn't have the patience to even try to read what's on screen. He just scrolls to the bottom and then curses about not finding what he was looking for. It's there, he just scrolled right past because he didn't have the patience.
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@purrperl @zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @thegardendude @codemonkeymike
Have a look at #guix, maybe just help increase the number of packages and services available there... Scheme is a pretty easy to learn language and widely taught in CS education.
I support this recommendation.
Another *ixOS will take years to take of, like the others did. And I think, the world/community/… will benefit more if joining efforts strengthening the existing ones instead of having yet another *ixOS.
@dlakelan @purrperl @thegardendude @codemonkeymike -
For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike the main computer I use for work was built in 2017. I use several "junk" Desktops for running game development workshops, some are as old as 14 years. Usually all they need to run Linux well is some extra RAM and a cheap graphics card (eg GT1030).
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@zer0unplanned @thegardendude @codemonkeymike
I get the basic idea behind nixOS and its scripting language that handles configuration. I'm planning to replace the nix language with Ruby/Perl, since those languages are already known, and it would save people the trouble of learning the nix language, and would draw more people in to nixOS.
@purrperl @thegardendude @codemonkeymike You mean making your own Nix based OS but then written in Perl/Ruby? I wish you honestly success, share your work when done
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For many people, the #Linux vs #Windows vs #Mac debate is a privilege — it assumes you can choose. But working with the Computer Upcycle Project, I've seen the real choice is often Linux vs no computer at all.
~95% of donated computers are "too old" for Windows 11 or macOS. Linux installs on them anyway, adding 10+ years of life to machines #Microsoft and #Apple called trash.
This isn't Linux vs Windows. It's Linux vs e-waste.
@codemonkeymike Exactly this! I have 6 old laptops converted to Linux Mint right now sitting here waiting to go to a local organisation that helps young single mums with no resources of their own.
Not only is Linux helping prevent e-waste, it's providing secure, powerful and free access to the digital world to people who otherwise would not have any (except maybe a crappy phone).
