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  3. People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?!

People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?!

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  • lenotaire@mastodon.socialL lenotaire@mastodon.social

    @romeu I do remember when at work they were using the "committed lines of code" metric. One week I managed to do a SINGLE line change. Fixing a bug which haunted us for months. As they finally acknowledged, the main issue was not the change but knowing exactly where it was needed. The metric had been since buried

    renardboy@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
    renardboy@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
    renardboy@mastodon.social
    wrote last edited by
    #22

    @lenotaire @romeu $9995 for knowing where to tap.

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    • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

      People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

      jmax@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jmax@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jmax@mastodon.social
      wrote last edited by
      #23

      @romeu I'm gonna prompt me a new minivan!

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      • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

        People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

        lu_leipzig@troet.cafeL This user is from outside of this forum
        lu_leipzig@troet.cafeL This user is from outside of this forum
        lu_leipzig@troet.cafe
        wrote last edited by
        #24

        @romeu ...from the people who brought us megawatts as a unit of computing power and "compute" as a noun.

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        • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

          People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

          wordshaper@weatherishappening.networkW This user is from outside of this forum
          wordshaper@weatherishappening.networkW This user is from outside of this forum
          wordshaper@weatherishappening.network
          wrote last edited by
          #25

          @romeu It's been interesting watching people compete to see who can burn the most money, time, and resources. I expect this will come out about as well as you'd expect.

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          • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

            People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

            procrvstinvtion@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
            procrvstinvtion@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
            procrvstinvtion@infosec.exchange
            wrote last edited by
            #26

            @romeu I’ve read about token allotment being a contract negotiation. “Salary isn’t the big argument anymore, token allotment is” to quote an ai bro

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            • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

              People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

              isaackuo@spacey.spaceI This user is from outside of this forum
              isaackuo@spacey.spaceI This user is from outside of this forum
              isaackuo@spacey.space
              wrote last edited by
              #27

              @romeu I asked LLM AI to tell me what productivity metric we should use and it told me LLM AI tokens used.

              I also asked my coke dealer what productivity metric we should use and he told me grams of coke used.

              I don't trust my coke dealer but I sure do absolutely trust my LLM AI.

              danielmclaury@mathstodon.xyzD 1 Reply Last reply
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              • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

                People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

                johnofrobotz@mastodon.girolab.fooJ This user is from outside of this forum
                johnofrobotz@mastodon.girolab.fooJ This user is from outside of this forum
                johnofrobotz@mastodon.girolab.foo
                wrote last edited by
                #28

                @romeu as soon as "Prompt Engineers" became a thing, this was bound to happen. Also terrible, but at least SLOC metrics had review and testing built in.

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                • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

                  People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

                  inthehands@hachyderm.ioI This user is from outside of this forum
                  inthehands@hachyderm.ioI This user is from outside of this forum
                  inthehands@hachyderm.io
                  wrote last edited by
                  #29

                  @romeu @cammerman

                  Our whole society is rife with this: mistaking consumption for productivity

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                  • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

                    People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

                    doragasu@mastodon.sdf.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
                    doragasu@mastodon.sdf.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
                    doragasu@mastodon.sdf.org
                    wrote last edited by
                    #30

                    @romeu Generative AI makes people so dumb...

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                    • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

                      People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

                      mo@mastodon.mlM This user is from outside of this forum
                      mo@mastodon.mlM This user is from outside of this forum
                      mo@mastodon.ml
                      wrote last edited by
                      #31

                      @romeu technically it is reasonable, if you aim for it to be lower, not higher

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                      • einarwh@mastodon.socialE einarwh@mastodon.social

                        @romeu It's probably the best possible metric for how hard you're cargo culting though, so it depends on your aims.

                        einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                        einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                        einarwh@mastodon.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #32

                        @romeu A more useful and accurate analysis may be as follows: tokens used will be seen as an adoption metric, and implicitly as a loyalty metric.

                        einarwh@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • einarwh@mastodon.socialE einarwh@mastodon.social

                          @romeu A more useful and accurate analysis may be as follows: tokens used will be seen as an adoption metric, and implicitly as a loyalty metric.

                          einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                          einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                          einarwh@mastodon.social
                          wrote last edited by
                          #33

                          @romeu Believing that AI is bringing about a productivity revolution, management will see AI as an opportunity yes, but primarily as a necessity, and an existential threat.

                          einarwh@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • romeu@mastodon.socialR romeu@mastodon.social

                            People are using « tokens used » as productivity metric ?! « Tokens used »?!?!? That’s like, the first time « lines of code created » gets beaten for the « worst metric of software engineering » 🫠

                            viq@social.hackerspace.plV This user is from outside of this forum
                            viq@social.hackerspace.plV This user is from outside of this forum
                            viq@social.hackerspace.pl
                            wrote last edited by
                            #34

                            @romeu very relevant post from @fesshole
                            https://mastodon.social/@fesshole/116153883462428890

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                            • einarwh@mastodon.socialE einarwh@mastodon.social

                              @romeu Believing that AI is bringing about a productivity revolution, management will see AI as an opportunity yes, but primarily as a necessity, and an existential threat.

                              einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                              einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                              einarwh@mastodon.social
                              wrote last edited by
                              #35

                              @romeu They will fear that unless everyone gets on board the AI juggernaut, the organization will be disrupted by new-fangled competitors who are reaping the insane productivity benefits that they have been convinced exist.

                              einarwh@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • einarwh@mastodon.socialE einarwh@mastodon.social

                                @romeu They will fear that unless everyone gets on board the AI juggernaut, the organization will be disrupted by new-fangled competitors who are reaping the insane productivity benefits that they have been convinced exist.

                                einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                einarwh@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #36

                                @romeu Hence the problem to be solved will be seen as one of adoption, and the obstacle to be overcome, the friction caused by recalcitrant, stubborn, backwards dinosaurs. And tokens used is an adoption metric, albeit one that is extremely vulnerable to Goodhart's law.

                                einarwh@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • einarwh@mastodon.socialE einarwh@mastodon.social

                                  @romeu Hence the problem to be solved will be seen as one of adoption, and the obstacle to be overcome, the friction caused by recalcitrant, stubborn, backwards dinosaurs. And tokens used is an adoption metric, albeit one that is extremely vulnerable to Goodhart's law.

                                  einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  einarwh@mastodon.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #37

                                  @romeu If you don't use any tokens, certainly it must mean that you're part of the problem and undermining the express will of management.

                                  einarwh@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • einarwh@mastodon.socialE einarwh@mastodon.social

                                    @romeu If you don't use any tokens, certainly it must mean that you're part of the problem and undermining the express will of management.

                                    einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                    einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                    einarwh@mastodon.social
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #38

                                    @romeu The worst part is that the fear of the existential threat is not necessarily entirely unfounded, on at least two grounds. Regardless of whether or not there is any real productivity boost due to AI.

                                    einarwh@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • einarwh@mastodon.socialE einarwh@mastodon.social

                                      @romeu The worst part is that the fear of the existential threat is not necessarily entirely unfounded, on at least two grounds. Regardless of whether or not there is any real productivity boost due to AI.

                                      einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                      einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                      einarwh@mastodon.social
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #39

                                      @romeu Customer management is likely to have bought into the same productivity narratives as your management, and will be looking to get a radically better deal than before. Whether or not that is possible for anyone to deliver.

                                      einarwh@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • einarwh@mastodon.socialE einarwh@mastodon.social

                                        @romeu Customer management is likely to have bought into the same productivity narratives as your management, and will be looking to get a radically better deal than before. Whether or not that is possible for anyone to deliver.

                                        einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        einarwh@mastodon.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #40

                                        @romeu And there will be no shortage of would-be competitors popping up claiming that they are in fact reaping those benefits and can deliver on those wishes. Whether or not that's true, both in the short and long term, doesn't matter: harm can be immediate.

                                        einarwh@mastodon.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • einarwh@mastodon.socialE einarwh@mastodon.social

                                          @romeu And there will be no shortage of would-be competitors popping up claiming that they are in fact reaping those benefits and can deliver on those wishes. Whether or not that's true, both in the short and long term, doesn't matter: harm can be immediate.

                                          einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                          einarwh@mastodon.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                                          einarwh@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #41

                                          @romeu It may all be mirages, but people make all kinds of stupid decisions based on mirages.

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