Now you can keep track of how many billions the AI companies are losing on AI.
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The Internet was losing money for at least 20 years.
@n_dimension @MikeElgan In case someone honestly believes this (and this isn't read as the obvious joke about AI-bros saying similar things):
The internet basically was never losing money, it enabled researchers to communicate and compute things way faster than before when they needed to send out mail and tapes manually. The amount of value their faster research created is basically immeasurable.
Also of course the internet wasn't burning our planet alive to work.
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Now you can keep track of how many billions the AI companies are losing on AI. (Red is spending, green is revenue.) https://isaiprofitable.com/
@MikeElgan Shouldn't it use profit rather than revenue to answer the question of whether it is profitable? You can have all the revenue in the world and still make a loss.
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@sebastian @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
The funny thing is that they utterly depend on those industries for content to train their lying machines, so its a bit hard to see a future for those machines@julesbl @sebastian @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan A future? That sounds like a problem for whoever is in charge later! The people in charge now will have already made their money and power wrecking everything by then.
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Now you can keep track of how many billions the AI companies are losing on AI. (Red is spending, green is revenue.) https://isaiprofitable.com/
@MikeElgan @savvykenya let’s see SpaceX now
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@julesbl @sebastian @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan A future? That sounds like a problem for whoever is in charge later! The people in charge now will have already made their money and power wrecking everything by then.
@bob_zim @sebastian @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
I'm not sure about that, the shear vast amounts of debt are big even for these big companies, but time will tell -
Now you can keep track of how many billions the AI companies are losing on AI. (Red is spending, green is revenue.) https://isaiprofitable.com/
@MikeElgan loss leaders
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The Internet was losing money for at least 20 years.
@n_dimension in case this wasn't sarcasm, No, "the internet" never lost money. And outside of government projects (think moon landing, wars), I've never seen unbalanced investment like this ever before.
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@sebastian @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan Can't personal websites help with that?
Genuinely asking, not trying to be a smartass. I know the outlook isn't good, just thought that people should do their part individually as well.
I know creating and maintaining content isn't easy, nor cheap. But perhaps what the internet lacks is more people making simpler websites with real content. An interconnected yet decentralized/independent web of real content, like we had in the past.
@KennedyRichard @sebastian @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan How would you find my home page for example? For a while now, the only way to search for general knowledge is a site:*subdomain.com search. I see a lot of that independent content around, most people aren't aware of it because there's no true useful search unless you already know where to search. There's no lack of content but there is an incentive to lock it away by initially the corporate search engine owners, now AI owners.
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@KennedyRichard @sebastian @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan How would you find my home page for example? For a while now, the only way to search for general knowledge is a site:*subdomain.com search. I see a lot of that independent content around, most people aren't aware of it because there's no true useful search unless you already know where to search. There's no lack of content but there is an incentive to lock it away by initially the corporate search engine owners, now AI owners.
@cohentheblue @KennedyRichard @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
You can certainly search not knowing *where* you are searching, but there is always a mediator inbetween - that most people might not be so aware of.
And if and when that mediator not only takes the role of filtering, deciding, but also presenting the results from their engines - no traffic will ever hit the original content. -
Now you can keep track of how many billions the AI companies are losing on AI. (Red is spending, green is revenue.) https://isaiprofitable.com/
Nvidia selling shovels to the gold rush prospectors
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@KennedyRichard @sebastian @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan How would you find my home page for example? For a while now, the only way to search for general knowledge is a site:*subdomain.com search. I see a lot of that independent content around, most people aren't aware of it because there's no true useful search unless you already know where to search. There's no lack of content but there is an incentive to lock it away by initially the corporate search engine owners, now AI owners.
@cohentheblue @sebastian @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
Fair enough. I myself often think some of my stuff didn't appeal to anyone and then after some time access to them spikes randomly when someone shares and suddenly a lot of people are reading/talking about it.
But at least this means we have a discoverability problem, not necessarily a content problem. I know it sucks and I don't have a solution, but while we figure out a solution, we must keep encouraging people to write/create.
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@cohentheblue @sebastian @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
Fair enough. I myself often think some of my stuff didn't appeal to anyone and then after some time access to them spikes randomly when someone shares and suddenly a lot of people are reading/talking about it.
But at least this means we have a discoverability problem, not necessarily a content problem. I know it sucks and I don't have a solution, but while we figure out a solution, we must keep encouraging people to write/create.
@KennedyRichard @cohentheblue @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
These content creators might not even see the spikes anymore, though, let alone be rewarded for them.
Everything they d see is crawlers.
Their content would be presented, and capitalized on, by those who run the centralized gateways. -
@cohentheblue @KennedyRichard @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
You can certainly search not knowing *where* you are searching, but there is always a mediator inbetween - that most people might not be so aware of.
And if and when that mediator not only takes the role of filtering, deciding, but also presenting the results from their engines - no traffic will ever hit the original content.@sebastian @cohentheblue @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
True. Like I said in reply to the post you just commented on, I don't have a solution to this, but at least it means the problem isn't a lack of quality content, just the discoverability/delivery. Until we find a problem to this, we must take care not to discourage people from writing/creating. We know meaningful content has value, so we must keep creating it while we find a way for it to get delivered to people that cares for it.
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@bob_zim @sebastian @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
I'm not sure about that, the shear vast amounts of debt are big even for these big companies, but time will tell@julesbl @sebastian @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan I’m mostly joking about how stock-market-focused capitalism heavily incentivizes looking good for the current quarter, then bailing out before people outside realize you did it by selling off all the buildings and signing extortionate leases for those same buildings. Or by laying off all the people who actually make the product the company sells. Etc.
When the lack of good training data becomes a problem, the current heads will bail out before it becomes public knowledge how bad the situation is. Or they’ll be “fired” with hundreds of millions of dollars in severance. They’re incentivized to not care.
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Now you can keep track of how many billions the AI companies are losing on AI. (Red is spending, green is revenue.) https://isaiprofitable.com/
@MikeElgan what even is money?
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@KennedyRichard @cohentheblue @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
These content creators might not even see the spikes anymore, though, let alone be rewarded for them.
Everything they d see is crawlers.
Their content would be presented, and capitalized on, by those who run the centralized gateways.@sebastian @cohentheblue @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
Yep. As I said, I don't have a solution. I just think we can't stop creating because of that. If we do, by the time we find a solution, there will be only slop.
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@KennedyRichard @cohentheblue @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
These content creators might not even see the spikes anymore, though, let alone be rewarded for them.
Everything they d see is crawlers.
Their content would be presented, and capitalized on, by those who run the centralized gateways.@sebastian @cohentheblue @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan At the very least we should encourage individuals to have their own domains and publish their own content. There's no need for fancy websites, either. Simple text-based websites with meaningful content are the last holdout of a useful internet.
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Now you can keep track of how many billions the AI companies are losing on AI. (Red is spending, green is revenue.) https://isaiprofitable.com/
@MikeElgan where are the Chinese AI? Deepseek, Alibaba, Moonshot, Zhipu, High-Flyer, etc.
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@sebastian @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan Can't personal websites help with that?
Genuinely asking, not trying to be a smartass. I know the outlook isn't good, just thought that people should do their part individually as well.
I know creating and maintaining content isn't easy, nor cheap. But perhaps what the internet lacks is more people making simpler websites with real content. An interconnected yet decentralized/independent web of real content, like we had in the past.
@KennedyRichard @sebastian @julesbl @PaulaToThePeople @MikeElgan
One problem with that idea is that the crawler from the LLMs are enormously crappy designed and will lead to noticeable traffic.
jwz (@jwz@mastodon.social)
Attached: 1 image The AI botnets cannot be stopped. I am constantly getting scrape attempts for avatar-image-JPEG URLs that have not existed on my blog since a restructuring in 2022. They come in bursts of about a 100 per minute, each from a different IP address, and in random order. I thought: enough is enough, I need to figure out what clown service these are coming from and start blocking whole networks. Nope, they're almost all from cable modems, not from hosting facilities: https://jwz.org/b/yk7g
Mastodon (mastodon.social)
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Now you can keep track of how many billions the AI companies are losing on AI. (Red is spending, green is revenue.) https://isaiprofitable.com/
@MikeElgan Should Nvidia even be on the list considering their AI profits, if I am not mistaken, is because of the datacenter infrastructure buildup and not actually doing "AI" tasks like the other companies bank, or not banking any yet, on..
