AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
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@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard you've put "anti-AI crazies" in quotes so I assume you're quoting me. Can you point to where I said that? Or are you trying to mislead people?
@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard I deliberately polled folks here because of the audience type. I wouldn't have done that if I considered their views 'crazy' as you put it.
Please get your words out of my mouth.
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@ada 147 isn't considered heavy weighted. Have you tried running without extensions to see if the issue is there?
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@ainmosni @jaffathecake only if you've opted in. The models are downloaded on-demand, when you interact with the feature.
@firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake Except as the kill switch very explicitly shows, the features are opt out.
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@firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake Except as the kill switch very explicitly shows, the features are opt out.
@ainmosni @jaffathecake Models aren't downloaded and used until you interact with the feature, so to some degree opt-in.
However, by default, buttons may exist in the UI for these features, or you may be prompted to use them.
The AI block removes these entry points as well as disabling the features.
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@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard you've put "anti-AI crazies" in quotes so I assume you're quoting me. Can you point to where I said that? Or are you trying to mislead people?
Ah, ok, this is the route you take. Of course. I should have know, my bad.
Can't believe I have to tell this to an adult on the internet, but quotation marks (despite their name) have countless uses other than quoting people, for example to highlight slang terms or sarcasm.
And, Jake, seriously:
This is your main takeaway from the message?
You honestly see this as a good use of your time?
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@ainmosni @jaffathecake Models aren't downloaded and used until you interact with the feature, so to some degree opt-in.
However, by default, buttons may exist in the UI for these features, or you may be prompted to use them.
The AI block removes these entry points as well as disabling the features.
@firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake Alright, but if the models are light enough to download on demand, then having such an aggressive warning on the opt out seems even more alarmist.
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@Mastokarl @alahmnat @firefoxwebdevs First, apologies for ruining your sleep!
Second, it is encouraging to think Kagi can do this. If it has an effective AI filter that might be what distinguishes it enough from Google that a critical mass of people switch.
(I can't imagine how you could program such a thing, though, when the whole point LLM output is to mimic human output as closely as possible.)
@mike @alahmnat @firefoxwebdevs Kagi is not explicitly filtering out AI content but has a number of techniques to get useful websites first.
I find it likely that there is a correlation between SEO crap and AI slop in web pages. Might be wrong.
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Ah, ok, this is the route you take. Of course. I should have know, my bad.
Can't believe I have to tell this to an adult on the internet, but quotation marks (despite their name) have countless uses other than quoting people, for example to highlight slang terms or sarcasm.
And, Jake, seriously:
This is your main takeaway from the message?
You honestly see this as a good use of your time?
@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard mate you directly said I was portraying people here as crazies. I see why you'd want to try and wriggle out of that, but your message is right there.
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@firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake Alright, but if the models are light enough to download on demand, then having such an aggressive warning on the opt out seems even more alarmist.
@ainmosni right, but the block may be deleting lots of models. I get what you're saying, but some features are in a bit of a grey area here, such as translation, so it seems reasonable to double check.
I expect we'll still get bug reports about translation being missing and users not understanding why, but having the controls is worth it imo.
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@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard mate you directly said I was portraying people here as crazies. I see why you'd want to try and wriggle out of that, but your message is right there.
To make one thing clear: I am not your mate, Jake.
By now, I am just a guy wondering what you are trying to achieve here, using both your work- and private account, working hard to alienate ex-Firefox-fans.
If this is your actual job: I feel sorry for you. Honestly. No sarcasm.
If not: for the love of god, go outside, touch grass, pet a dog, call a loved one.
Do literally *anything* except for whatever it is you are doing here. For your own sake.
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@ainmosni right, but the block may be deleting lots of models. I get what you're saying, but some features are in a bit of a grey area here, such as translation, so it seems reasonable to double check.
I expect we'll still get bug reports about translation being missing and users not understanding why, but having the controls is worth it imo.
@firefoxwebdevs I understand, but I still don't understand why it's so much a bigger deal than say turning off history, which would be a much bigger change in behaviour for everyone involved
That said, outside of the FOMO drama-queen-ness of the toggle, I'm happy that it's finally there, it's a start to earn back some trust.
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To make one thing clear: I am not your mate, Jake.
By now, I am just a guy wondering what you are trying to achieve here, using both your work- and private account, working hard to alienate ex-Firefox-fans.
If this is your actual job: I feel sorry for you. Honestly. No sarcasm.
If not: for the love of god, go outside, touch grass, pet a dog, call a loved one.
Do literally *anything* except for whatever it is you are doing here. For your own sake.
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard ok, you've done everything you can to avoid addressing your attempt to put words in my mouth. Maybe that's just your general personality, but I'm glad the people around me are not so openly malicious.
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard ok, you've done everything you can to avoid addressing your attempt to put words in my mouth. Maybe that's just your general personality, but I'm glad the people around me are not so openly malicious.
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard to be clear: I do not consider people here to be crazy. Those are your words. You chose to use those words.
I got involved in this project because of the feedback I received here, and that feedback helped me make a change (https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115859958902197087).
Yes, this is a section of the user-base, one that isn't identical to the whole user-base. You may choose words like 'crazy' to describe them, but I absolutely reject your framing.
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AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
For the full details, see the Firefox blog https://blog.mozilla.org/en/firefox/ai-controls/
@firefoxwebdevs Bullshit generators should be opt-in, not opt-out!
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What Mozilla did:
️What the users actually wanted:
️Duke of Germany 💫 (@duke_of_germany@mastodon.gamedev.place)
Let's ask the real question: Firefox users, do you want any AI directly built into Firefox, or separated out into extensions? @firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social @davidgerard@circumstances.run @tante@tldr.nettime.org #Firefox #InformedConsent [ ] I want AI built into Firefox [ ] I want AI separated into extensions [ ] Mozilla should not focus on AI features at all
Gamedev Mastodon (mastodon.gamedev.place)
@duke_of_germany@mastodon.gamedev.place @firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social "users" and its just one poll on a network only used by tech people
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard to be clear: I do not consider people here to be crazy. Those are your words. You chose to use those words.
I got involved in this project because of the feedback I received here, and that feedback helped me make a change (https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115859958902197087).
Yes, this is a section of the user-base, one that isn't identical to the whole user-base. You may choose words like 'crazy' to describe them, but I absolutely reject your framing.
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs rarely seen a man so unable to read and understand text
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No, Jake, I am not aware of this, and I do not believe this to be true.
Mastodon users might be special in the way they articulate their opinion, but by no means does this represent a fringe notion.
See for example the links in the reply of @jonny, or the ongoing AI-vote by DuckDuckGo: https://voteyesornoai.com/.
Ask an arbitrary group of people head on if they want genAI directly built into their software, and they will overwhelmingly say "no".
@duke_of_germany @jonny @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs lol damn, 175k votes, and a 3:1 gather ratio on the other unforced-options poll you ran
that's Some Numbers right there
wonder if they'll listen (wait, no, I don't wonder: https://mastodon.social/@froztbyte/116005140730818539)
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs they're aware of the sentiment. I'm sure you're aware that Mastodon has a high representation of folks who don't like AI, so presenting evidence that Mastodon users don't like AI is kinda… well… not really useful.
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs
I'd class Fedi as having a high representation of people who care about software, ethics and the intersection of the two. I would call that useful.
Also I see myself in the comment about it being populated by the kind of people who have been recommending Firefox since before Chrome existed, but are now feeling alienated by Mozilla's decisions.
Am I really going to go into settings every time a new AI flag pops up, or am I going to run Zen?
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard ok, you've done everything you can to avoid addressing your attempt to put words in my mouth. Maybe that's just your general personality, but I'm glad the people around me are not so openly malicious.
Go. Outside. Touch. Grass.
️And blink twice if you need help.
You do not have to write these little "comebacks". Everybody and their dog can see right through them, and they accomplish nothing, other than wasting your personal lifetime.
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@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs
I'd class Fedi as having a high representation of people who care about software, ethics and the intersection of the two. I would call that useful.
Also I see myself in the comment about it being populated by the kind of people who have been recommending Firefox since before Chrome existed, but are now feeling alienated by Mozilla's decisions.
Am I really going to go into settings every time a new AI flag pops up, or am I going to run Zen?
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs
And I'm not angry at you personally, if anything I'm angry on behalf of all the people just trying to make a good browser. At the people who insist on AI in the face of no evidence that current users want it, or that it will realistically win away Chrome users or similar.
