AI Controls (formerly 'kill switch') are landing in today's Firefox Nightly, and will land with Firefox 148 later this month.
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@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs About as much disruption as downloading them by default for the people who are flipping this switch, no? Hardly seems worthy of a bigger warning than deleting stuff from a hard drive.
@ainmosni @firefoxwebdevs when do they download by default?
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@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs i keep seeing this cop-out, but i have yet to see any polling from mozilla that says a majority of their users do want AI in their browser.
e.g. 14 days ago i see an informal poll in reddit with the same conclusion - https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/1qhfvkw/interested_in_your_views_on_ai_in_firefox/
the thread inviting people to comment on the AI window a few weeks ago was the same thing, overwhelmingly negative - https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/building-ai-the-firefox-way-shaping-what-s-next-together/td-p/109922
so if in community after community people are nearly unanimous about the pivot to AI, it seems like the burden is on firefox dev team to show that there is some silent majority that is loving it rather than insisting that every community is an echo chamber
@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @jonny
Real
"Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong." vibes.
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@alvan @firefoxwebdevs all of those features run locally
@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs that is perfect then!
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs they're aware of the sentiment. I'm sure you're aware that Mastodon has a high representation of folks who don't like AI, so presenting evidence that Mastodon users don't like AI is kinda… well… not really useful.
No, Jake, I am not aware of this, and I do not believe this to be true.
Mastodon users might be special in the way they articulate their opinion, but by no means does this represent a fringe notion.
See for example the links in the reply of @jonny, or the ongoing AI-vote by DuckDuckGo: https://voteyesornoai.com/.
Ask an arbitrary group of people head on if they want genAI directly built into their software, and they will overwhelmingly say "no".
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@ainmosni @firefoxwebdevs when do they download by default?
@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs Aren’t they present before I click that toggle?
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No, Jake, I am not aware of this, and I do not believe this to be true.
Mastodon users might be special in the way they articulate their opinion, but by no means does this represent a fringe notion.
See for example the links in the reply of @jonny, or the ongoing AI-vote by DuckDuckGo: https://voteyesornoai.com/.
Ask an arbitrary group of people head on if they want genAI directly built into their software, and they will overwhelmingly say "no".
Stop portraying Mastodon users as the "anti-AI crazies".
Instead, ask yourself: "What is the relation between Mastodon users & Firefox?"
The answer:
An overwhelming number of Mastodon users used to be your champions.
They are tech people who used to recommend Firefox to the normies in their life. A crowd of mini-influencers, recommending your product.
And I don't understand why you go out of your way to alienate exactly these people.
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@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs Aren’t they present before I click that toggle?
@ainmosni @jaffathecake only if you've opted in. The models are downloaded on-demand, when you interact with the feature.
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Stop portraying Mastodon users as the "anti-AI crazies".
Instead, ask yourself: "What is the relation between Mastodon users & Firefox?"
The answer:
An overwhelming number of Mastodon users used to be your champions.
They are tech people who used to recommend Firefox to the normies in their life. A crowd of mini-influencers, recommending your product.
And I don't understand why you go out of your way to alienate exactly these people.
@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard you've put "anti-AI crazies" in quotes so I assume you're quoting me. Can you point to where I said that? Or are you trying to mislead people?
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@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard you've put "anti-AI crazies" in quotes so I assume you're quoting me. Can you point to where I said that? Or are you trying to mislead people?
@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard I deliberately polled folks here because of the audience type. I wouldn't have done that if I considered their views 'crazy' as you put it.
Please get your words out of my mouth.
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@ada 147 isn't considered heavy weighted. Have you tried running without extensions to see if the issue is there?
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@ainmosni @jaffathecake only if you've opted in. The models are downloaded on-demand, when you interact with the feature.
@firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake Except as the kill switch very explicitly shows, the features are opt out.
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@firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake Except as the kill switch very explicitly shows, the features are opt out.
@ainmosni @jaffathecake Models aren't downloaded and used until you interact with the feature, so to some degree opt-in.
However, by default, buttons may exist in the UI for these features, or you may be prompted to use them.
The AI block removes these entry points as well as disabling the features.
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@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard you've put "anti-AI crazies" in quotes so I assume you're quoting me. Can you point to where I said that? Or are you trying to mislead people?
Ah, ok, this is the route you take. Of course. I should have know, my bad.
Can't believe I have to tell this to an adult on the internet, but quotation marks (despite their name) have countless uses other than quoting people, for example to highlight slang terms or sarcasm.
And, Jake, seriously:
This is your main takeaway from the message?
You honestly see this as a good use of your time?
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@ainmosni @jaffathecake Models aren't downloaded and used until you interact with the feature, so to some degree opt-in.
However, by default, buttons may exist in the UI for these features, or you may be prompted to use them.
The AI block removes these entry points as well as disabling the features.
@firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake Alright, but if the models are light enough to download on demand, then having such an aggressive warning on the opt out seems even more alarmist.
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@Mastokarl @alahmnat @firefoxwebdevs First, apologies for ruining your sleep!
Second, it is encouraging to think Kagi can do this. If it has an effective AI filter that might be what distinguishes it enough from Google that a critical mass of people switch.
(I can't imagine how you could program such a thing, though, when the whole point LLM output is to mimic human output as closely as possible.)
@mike @alahmnat @firefoxwebdevs Kagi is not explicitly filtering out AI content but has a number of techniques to get useful websites first.
I find it likely that there is a correlation between SEO crap and AI slop in web pages. Might be wrong.
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Ah, ok, this is the route you take. Of course. I should have know, my bad.
Can't believe I have to tell this to an adult on the internet, but quotation marks (despite their name) have countless uses other than quoting people, for example to highlight slang terms or sarcasm.
And, Jake, seriously:
This is your main takeaway from the message?
You honestly see this as a good use of your time?
@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard mate you directly said I was portraying people here as crazies. I see why you'd want to try and wriggle out of that, but your message is right there.
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@firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake Alright, but if the models are light enough to download on demand, then having such an aggressive warning on the opt out seems even more alarmist.
@ainmosni right, but the block may be deleting lots of models. I get what you're saying, but some features are in a bit of a grey area here, such as translation, so it seems reasonable to double check.
I expect we'll still get bug reports about translation being missing and users not understanding why, but having the controls is worth it imo.
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@duke_of_germany @jonny @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard mate you directly said I was portraying people here as crazies. I see why you'd want to try and wriggle out of that, but your message is right there.
To make one thing clear: I am not your mate, Jake.
By now, I am just a guy wondering what you are trying to achieve here, using both your work- and private account, working hard to alienate ex-Firefox-fans.
If this is your actual job: I feel sorry for you. Honestly. No sarcasm.
If not: for the love of god, go outside, touch grass, pet a dog, call a loved one.
Do literally *anything* except for whatever it is you are doing here. For your own sake.
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@ainmosni right, but the block may be deleting lots of models. I get what you're saying, but some features are in a bit of a grey area here, such as translation, so it seems reasonable to double check.
I expect we'll still get bug reports about translation being missing and users not understanding why, but having the controls is worth it imo.
@firefoxwebdevs I understand, but I still don't understand why it's so much a bigger deal than say turning off history, which would be a much bigger change in behaviour for everyone involved
That said, outside of the FOMO drama-queen-ness of the toggle, I'm happy that it's finally there, it's a start to earn back some trust.
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To make one thing clear: I am not your mate, Jake.
By now, I am just a guy wondering what you are trying to achieve here, using both your work- and private account, working hard to alienate ex-Firefox-fans.
If this is your actual job: I feel sorry for you. Honestly. No sarcasm.
If not: for the love of god, go outside, touch grass, pet a dog, call a loved one.
Do literally *anything* except for whatever it is you are doing here. For your own sake.
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard ok, you've done everything you can to avoid addressing your attempt to put words in my mouth. Maybe that's just your general personality, but I'm glad the people around me are not so openly malicious.
