#USpol #Norway #taxes #tax
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@davidaugust When you are paying for private healthcare, you are also paying the providers margin.
That makes it much more expensive that tax funded healthcare systems that don't take profits. About twice as much in the US than in the EU, with poorer outcomes. -
@WiseWoman As much as I love having free healthcare, parental leave etc, people in EU countries fall for fascism every other week.
@davidaugust@j_bertolotti @WiseWoman @davidaugust They forgot how communists, syndicalists and organising got them to a place of dignity. Thatcher and her lot have eroded the laws and institutions with austerity, technocracy, privatization and individualistic propaganda. It's still holding up though.
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I wish for once someone would do a side by side comparison of all taxes and health costs for an average citizen of these 2 countries.
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Worth adding also that European state-funded healthcare produces better health outcomes for less money than the US privatised system.
Plus - not all Norwegians pay more than Americans anyway. What tax you pay in Europe generally depends on what you can afford.
@GeofCox @davidaugust Another benefit of state run healthcare is that you have (some) democratic control over how they are administered.
A privatized system answers to shareholders and their thirst for profits. Also true for education, transportation water and other utilities... Common goods cannot be privately run. -
@davidaugust
I don't think people understand the idea of free Healthcare. Yes, paying for it in taxes, means it's not free. However, paying for it in taxes means, I don't have to go six years without glasses because I can't afford the exam. It means if my glasses break today, I can go to get an exam, get my prescription and go to get my glasses without taking from my food, rent, and clothing.
Not sure about glasses outside of the US, is that a separate charge?@faliate @davidaugust Optical, dental, prescriptions are not covered in Canada. Well, not universally covered.
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@davidaugust
How were you able to design such an admirable system of administration where all people benefit from what they pay in taxes? -
@davidaugust All told we're probably paying about as much. Especially with the mad king randomly taxing stuff now.
We just get nothing for it. Absolutely nothing. Every penny goes into corporate pockets now.
@nazokiyoubinbou
What can be done to change that system? -
Don't use that term for the RIGHTS Europeans have fought for, and which are only possible because we have democracies where the common good is not an empty phrase. That's the difference between having parliamentary representation of citizens and an oligarchy where people are hoping for "benefits" from their master, err..., employer.
@HarryMutt
Democracy is slowly vanishing which makes people not to enjoy the rights they once fought and are now paying for. What can bring power back in the hands of the people? -
@nazokiyoubinbou
What can be done to change that system?@nuwagaba2 Oh god I wish I knew the answer...
All I can say is the biggest thing is people have to care. Most don't until it actually affects them. And then it's too late.
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CC: Aktuelle Regierung der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.
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It's important to know that it's not even state-funded in most of Europe. There are tax-finaced single payer systems like in Britain or Denmark, and there are fully private systems like in Switzerland or the Netherlands. And there are mixed-systems like in Germany, where there is private insurance and public (NOT tax-financed) insurance. All of them have in common that health insurance is mandatory and that the health sector is heavily regulated. Patients are patients, not customers to be ripped off like in the states.
I think you have to be careful not to mislead on this Harry. While it's true that there is an insurance element in many of the European health systems, this is generally not that significant. Here in France, for example, a lot of people do have 'top-up' insurance - but it's provided by mutuals, not the private sector, and works in partnership with the state system - and it's only to cover the small part of most treatment not covered directly by the state, and for extras like designer glasses or cosmetic dentistry. Moreover, all serious or chronic illness care is paid 100% by the state, as is all treatment for anybody on a low income.
There are differences between systems, but the French system is typical of most - including the Netherlands, where long-term care needs are state-funded too. Nobody gets into debt or goes bankrupt through health care costs in Europe, as far as I know.
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@nuwagaba2 Oh god I wish I knew the answer...
All I can say is the biggest thing is people have to care. Most don't until it actually affects them. And then it's too late.
@nazokiyoubinbou
We need unity first . Where both who are affected and those who are not join hands against the common cause. How can these people be joined together? -
@nazokiyoubinbou
We need unity first . Where both who are affected and those who are not join hands against the common cause. How can these people be joined together?@nuwagaba2 You're asking me to answer a question that a lot of much smarter people than me have been pondering for some time.
I can only say that I wish I knew.
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@davidaugust me- "yeah, the tax is higher, but things are actually taken care of, maintained, and you don't need to pay $2500 a year in taxes."
My dad- "I'd rather not pay taxes." -
@nuwagaba2 You're asking me to answer a question that a lot of much smarter people than me have been pondering for some time.
I can only say that I wish I knew.
@nazokiyoubinbou
That's okay. I just wanted to see whether we have the same idea. Education can be a better way out. If we cab educate the people and the children the importance of togetherness, we can address such a challenge. Because they want us divided, that's why the children even at school are not allowed to help each other during tests and exams. Can i share with you about my project? -
@nazokiyoubinbou
That's okay. I just wanted to see whether we have the same idea. Education can be a better way out. If we cab educate the people and the children the importance of togetherness, we can address such a challenge. Because they want us divided, that's why the children even at school are not allowed to help each other during tests and exams. Can i share with you about my project?@nuwagaba2 I am in no position to help I'm afraid.
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@nuwagaba2 I am in no position to help I'm afraid.
@nazokiyoubinbou
Thanks for everything . Are there some ideas , knowledge and connections that you can share with us to help us move forward ? -
@davidaugust
Plus you exported quislings like Thune and Noem to the US! Hella strategy, now can we return them? -
@noplasticshower @davidaugust If it’s feasible with 6M people, then it should be much more doable with over 60 times as many.
@ArtHarg @davidaugust I wish that were true. I love Norway and have a great deal of respect for that approach. But you guys seem to have no sense of just how big and how disparate the US is.
For example, I live in the DC metro area which has more people in it than Norway and overlaps physically with two states and a District with different laws and different (sometimes nonexistent) representation.
California is the same area as Norway with the 6.6 times more people.
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@ArtHarg @noplasticshower @davidaugust Add to that just over 6 million people in Denmark.
I definitely take home a bigger part of what I have earned here in Denmark when I calculate in health care, childcare and education for myself and my family.
/Edit: My point was, I used to live in Brooklyn, so it is not a theoretical comparison.@mjj @ArtHarg @davidaugust I understand your point and politically I agree with it. But it is very naive.
