Great video.
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@wackJackle Loving the part about Gutenberg going bankrupt and all the following ones.
Less of a fan of the conclusion* (but does she knows how to tell a story ! I was sucked right in, wow)
*Because I don't think its very interesting to argue on the unity of change on some technique branch (computers/the press) while it's always a continuum anyway so like, in the end, I felt "duh all this for that". But it was a nice journey anyway.
@otyugh You don't have to agree with someone has to say about a topic. You can still learn something about it.
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
@wackJackle Thanks for sharing this! Her take on the successive tech revolutions about information is quite interesting.
<my 2cts>
But I find it difficult to consider the output of LLMs/Gen AI as "information". I'd rather word it as "data".For it to be considered as "information", I would expect these technologies to provide "new facts", which they can't (or hallucinate, in which case they are false information).
Therefore I don't see how this serves the information history.
</my 2cts> -
Thanks! I thought that might be her. She wrote Inventing the Renaissance. She's very interesting.
@jamesbritt @wackJackle that's an awesome book.
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@otyugh You don't have to agree with someone has to say about a topic. You can still learn something about it.
@wackJackle Totally, that's why I also said I loved the part I loved ! (and learned !)
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@wackJackle Thanks for sharing this! Her take on the successive tech revolutions about information is quite interesting.
<my 2cts>
But I find it difficult to consider the output of LLMs/Gen AI as "information". I'd rather word it as "data".For it to be considered as "information", I would expect these technologies to provide "new facts", which they can't (or hallucinate, in which case they are false information).
Therefore I don't see how this serves the information history.
</my 2cts>@birozularutti @wackJackle If you read up on distinctions between data, information, knowledge and wisdom you'll find no requirement for information to be true, accurate or novel.
Its character is informing, that is communicating something meaningful. Misinformation and disinformation are forms of information often even more amenable to communication ("a lie gets halfway round the world before the truth gets its boots on").
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@birozularutti @wackJackle If you read up on distinctions between data, information, knowledge and wisdom you'll find no requirement for information to be true, accurate or novel.
Its character is informing, that is communicating something meaningful. Misinformation and disinformation are forms of information often even more amenable to communication ("a lie gets halfway round the world before the truth gets its boots on").
@samueljohnson @wackJackle I need to read a bit more about that. The definitions for data and information I had in mind were close to these: https://bloomfire.com/blog/data-vs-information/
According to these definitions, I still think that GenAI/LLM output does not qualify as information. At best, it mimics information provided by others.
But I agree on disinformation being a form of information.
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
@wackJackle If anyone can find the rest of this interview, please post a link below. Thanks!
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
Ada Palmer is a national treasure! A terrific Renaissance historian at UChicago. But also an exciting, erudite (and fun!) guest at science fiction/fantasy/horror conventions for years. (She wrote the mind-bending Terra Ignota series.)
At one con she handed a small incunabulum around the room for everyone to (carefully) hold in our hands, while she spoke brilliantly about the early history of printing, as in this video.
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
@wackJackle This is fascinating @adapalmer and she deserves to be tagged directly
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@wackJackle This is fascinating @adapalmer and she deserves to be tagged directly
@mx I@adapalmer@wandering.shop I agree and I forgot that I'm already following her. I'm sorry. She's fantastic.
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R relay@relay.publicsquare.global shared this topicR relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
@adapalmer My new crush. Watching the whole podcast now, sipping rye and drinking beer.
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
@wackJackle this is fantastic. Thanks for the clear explanation @adapalmer
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
We must be thankful for religion + capitalism...
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
What a passionate speaker they are!
On a related note, saw an exhibition of those first Venice-printed books back in the day. What pieces of art, and status symbols, too. The exhibition made a big point how the youth wanted to be painted with their bleeding-edge pocket books. No dusty coffee table books for the young generation, no sir!
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
@wackJackle @adapalmer Beautifully articulated. I had considered that parallel before.
What I want to know is where the parallel goes in terms of monopolies, censorship, age-verification, etc.
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R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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@wackJackle Loving the part about Gutenberg going bankrupt and all the following ones.
Less of a fan of the conclusion* (but does she knows how to tell a story ! I was sucked right in, wow)
*Because I don't think its very interesting to argue on the unity of change on some technique branch (computers/the press) while it's always a continuum anyway so like, in the end, I felt "duh all this for that". But it was a nice journey anyway.
@otyugh @wackJackle I kind of agree with you, after watching I'm left with two feelings: that's a really interesting thesis, I like it; and: what now?
It seems there would be something to learn in this parallel she is making between those two information revolutions. But it is not obvious to me. The only thing that I can guess is that the current revolution we live in has probably not settled down and it will take another few decades at least.
1/2
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@otyugh @wackJackle I kind of agree with you, after watching I'm left with two feelings: that's a really interesting thesis, I like it; and: what now?
It seems there would be something to learn in this parallel she is making between those two information revolutions. But it is not obvious to me. The only thing that I can guess is that the current revolution we live in has probably not settled down and it will take another few decades at least.
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@otyugh @wackJackle but this only conclusion seems kind of obvious when you look at the state of social media, the tech oligarchy and how they affect the world.
If you would know about any other resources from Palmer or other on the topic I would definitely be interested to know more!
2/2
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
You need historians to understand social media revolutions!
Told you so!
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
1490s, boom...
gun power/cannon arrives from China (vector destroying old power equilibrium)...
as printing becomes sustainable (vector for spreading new ideas)What a time to have been alive.
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Great video. Watch it!
(This is Prof. Ada Palmer)
Really I ought to wait 17 days to post this...
The full Dwarkesh Patel podcast interview with Ada Palmer is here:
Why Leonardo was a saboteur, Gutenberg went broke, and Florence was weird – Ada Palmer
