universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
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@dkf@cyberplace.social @eloy@hsnl.social there is no outlook app for linux, and for android, it requests admin access to my device before i can use it, so i removed the account, but it's stuck thinking it's still added so for 2fa i have to always select "text me" otherwise it tries to send a message to my nonexistant phone
tldr it's a clusterfuck and postfix + roundcube + gnumail are betterTo be honest, entire email system is more than a bit of a clusterfuck.
And Google and Microsoft didn't help with that.
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@ananas@scicomm.xyz @eloy@hsnl.social @dkf@cyberplace.social i still really like e-mail for some reason
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@eloy Efforts like this in the 80s were individual efforts, not organizationally driven. Individual on campuses today are still working to build a better world. And individuals on campuses are moving away from the MS stack (not me, mind you). But to make that change on an organizational level is a challenge of a different kind and order.
@edbilodeau With you on this one. It's one thing to do something individually or as a small group; that's often quite doable. It's quite another matter to do it for thousands of people, or worse yet *convince* someone else (who doesn't really want to do it, sees it as introducing risk, etc.) to do it for potentially thousands of people.
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@ananas@scicomm.xyz @eloy@hsnl.social @dkf@cyberplace.social i still really like e-mail for some reason
Well I've had plans to write my own email client software to replace roundcube, so I guess I kinda like it too.
It's just love-hate relationship at this point.
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@ananas@scicomm.xyz @eloy@hsnl.social @dkf@cyberplace.social that's a cool idea
in php? or -
@ananas@scicomm.xyz @eloy@hsnl.social @dkf@cyberplace.social that's a cool idea
in php? or -
@eloy Efforts like this in the 80s were individual efforts, not organizationally driven. Individual on campuses today are still working to build a better world. And individuals on campuses are moving away from the MS stack (not me, mind you). But to make that change on an organizational level is a challenge of a different kind and order.
@eloy @edbilodeau As someone who has made his career in higher ed, this is very true. It's not impossible, just very hard. Change is more effective when it's organic rather than top down.
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy @gnomon Also universities in the 80s: one of the biggest places computer stuff was happening, especially Internet/networking stuff. Universities today: a lower-paid backwater for exciting Internet, networking, Unix etc stuff.
In the 70s and 80s, a university job looked like a decently paid place you could continue interesting work after a CS degree, and better than many outside computer programming jobs (hello IBM mainframes). Today, the exciting jobs are outside of academia.
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@eloy @gnomon Also universities in the 80s: one of the biggest places computer stuff was happening, especially Internet/networking stuff. Universities today: a lower-paid backwater for exciting Internet, networking, Unix etc stuff.
In the 70s and 80s, a university job looked like a decently paid place you could continue interesting work after a CS degree, and better than many outside computer programming jobs (hello IBM mainframes). Today, the exciting jobs are outside of academia.
@eloy @gnomon I came up through the CS to university sysadmin pipeline (and currently work at a CS department). Even back then I don't think it was a majority pipeline¹ and it kept shrinking over time as outside jobs got better (both pay and work). Today the university can't really compete; what highly technical new people we can recruit have to really, really like the environment.
¹ people might start as university sysadmins but they leaked out unless they liked the environment.
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@eloy @gnomon I came up through the CS to university sysadmin pipeline (and currently work at a CS department). Even back then I don't think it was a majority pipeline¹ and it kept shrinking over time as outside jobs got better (both pay and work). Today the university can't really compete; what highly technical new people we can recruit have to really, really like the environment.
¹ people might start as university sysadmins but they leaked out unless they liked the environment.
@eloy @gnomon I'm low key terrified of what's going to happen to my university over the next 10-15 years as an entire generation of highly technical sysadmins from the 80s and early 90s ages out and retires, with not very many replacements in the pipeline. We have so many home-built, inexpensive, bespoke systems that keep things going, but they really need programmer or system programmer level people around.
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@eloy @gnomon Also universities in the 80s: one of the biggest places computer stuff was happening, especially Internet/networking stuff. Universities today: a lower-paid backwater for exciting Internet, networking, Unix etc stuff.
In the 70s and 80s, a university job looked like a decently paid place you could continue interesting work after a CS degree, and better than many outside computer programming jobs (hello IBM mainframes). Today, the exciting jobs are outside of academia.
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@eloy @gnomon Also universities in the 80s: one of the biggest places computer stuff was happening, especially Internet/networking stuff. Universities today: a lower-paid backwater for exciting Internet, networking, Unix etc stuff.
In the 70s and 80s, a university job looked like a decently paid place you could continue interesting work after a CS degree, and better than many outside computer programming jobs (hello IBM mainframes). Today, the exciting jobs are outside of academia.
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@maswan @eloy @gnomon My view is that management is somewhat forced by what staff they can recruit and what that staff can operate (which at a large scale is forced by budget, which is forced by politics¹). Increasingly I think universities (and lots of other places) will be forced to rely on existing solutions instead of building their own.
¹ as mainstream tech salaries get ever higher it becomes ever-harder for 'second tier' organizations like universities to pay competitively.
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@maswan @eloy @gnomon My view is that management is somewhat forced by what staff they can recruit and what that staff can operate (which at a large scale is forced by budget, which is forced by politics¹). Increasingly I think universities (and lots of other places) will be forced to rely on existing solutions instead of building their own.
¹ as mainstream tech salaries get ever higher it becomes ever-harder for 'second tier' organizations like universities to pay competitively.
@cks
@eloy @gnomon Yeah, but this is also a geographical issue. While we can't match US tech giant salaries, we're not far behind the local IT sector (but with some better benefits like 7 instead of 5 weeks vacation etc).The bigger challenge for us lately is how to sell the position, gotta call it devops and not sysadmin, and stuff like that. Operations seem to be very low-valued in the modern world.
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy Also universities in the 1980s: We're training the best & brightest, we offer them permanent contracts e.g. in the IT department and try to hold them.
Also universities now: Get your degree and get lost! Why can't we find good staff? 🥺
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy Moving away?
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy
And can we go back to submitting papers for publication using LaTeX rather than Microsoft Word? Please? -
universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
RE: https://hsnl.social/@eloy/116003176888188762
To be clear, I HATE the current state of things, but there's a hint of truth to this.
I don't have the blog post handy, but someone tried to roll their own alternative to TCP, UDP, etc for fun recently. They discovered that carriers will refuse to reliably route anything that's doesn't set the IP proto to TCP/UDP.
So even if Unis wanted to create a new proto, it _sounds_ like the social aspect of getting non-Uni middlemen to play nice is a lot more difficult.
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy
I'm under the impression that it was,easier back then because there was less stuff in that area that was already built and that people relied on. -
@eloy
I'm under the impression that it was,easier back then because there was less stuff in that area that was already built and that people relied on.@wolf480pl absolutely, and protocol ossification is a thing
