universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
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@eloy @gnomon I came up through the CS to university sysadmin pipeline (and currently work at a CS department). Even back then I don't think it was a majority pipeline¹ and it kept shrinking over time as outside jobs got better (both pay and work). Today the university can't really compete; what highly technical new people we can recruit have to really, really like the environment.
¹ people might start as university sysadmins but they leaked out unless they liked the environment.
@eloy @gnomon I'm low key terrified of what's going to happen to my university over the next 10-15 years as an entire generation of highly technical sysadmins from the 80s and early 90s ages out and retires, with not very many replacements in the pipeline. We have so many home-built, inexpensive, bespoke systems that keep things going, but they really need programmer or system programmer level people around.
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@eloy @gnomon Also universities in the 80s: one of the biggest places computer stuff was happening, especially Internet/networking stuff. Universities today: a lower-paid backwater for exciting Internet, networking, Unix etc stuff.
In the 70s and 80s, a university job looked like a decently paid place you could continue interesting work after a CS degree, and better than many outside computer programming jobs (hello IBM mainframes). Today, the exciting jobs are outside of academia.
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@eloy @gnomon Also universities in the 80s: one of the biggest places computer stuff was happening, especially Internet/networking stuff. Universities today: a lower-paid backwater for exciting Internet, networking, Unix etc stuff.
In the 70s and 80s, a university job looked like a decently paid place you could continue interesting work after a CS degree, and better than many outside computer programming jobs (hello IBM mainframes). Today, the exciting jobs are outside of academia.
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@maswan @eloy @gnomon My view is that management is somewhat forced by what staff they can recruit and what that staff can operate (which at a large scale is forced by budget, which is forced by politics¹). Increasingly I think universities (and lots of other places) will be forced to rely on existing solutions instead of building their own.
¹ as mainstream tech salaries get ever higher it becomes ever-harder for 'second tier' organizations like universities to pay competitively.
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@maswan @eloy @gnomon My view is that management is somewhat forced by what staff they can recruit and what that staff can operate (which at a large scale is forced by budget, which is forced by politics¹). Increasingly I think universities (and lots of other places) will be forced to rely on existing solutions instead of building their own.
¹ as mainstream tech salaries get ever higher it becomes ever-harder for 'second tier' organizations like universities to pay competitively.
@cks
@eloy @gnomon Yeah, but this is also a geographical issue. While we can't match US tech giant salaries, we're not far behind the local IT sector (but with some better benefits like 7 instead of 5 weeks vacation etc).The bigger challenge for us lately is how to sell the position, gotta call it devops and not sysadmin, and stuff like that. Operations seem to be very low-valued in the modern world.
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy Also universities in the 1980s: We're training the best & brightest, we offer them permanent contracts e.g. in the IT department and try to hold them.
Also universities now: Get your degree and get lost! Why can't we find good staff? 🥺
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy Moving away?
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy
And can we go back to submitting papers for publication using LaTeX rather than Microsoft Word? Please? -
universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
RE: https://hsnl.social/@eloy/116003176888188762
To be clear, I HATE the current state of things, but there's a hint of truth to this.
I don't have the blog post handy, but someone tried to roll their own alternative to TCP, UDP, etc for fun recently. They discovered that carriers will refuse to reliably route anything that's doesn't set the IP proto to TCP/UDP.
So even if Unis wanted to create a new proto, it _sounds_ like the social aspect of getting non-Uni middlemen to play nice is a lot more difficult.
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy
I'm under the impression that it was,easier back then because there was less stuff in that area that was already built and that people relied on. -
@eloy
I'm under the impression that it was,easier back then because there was less stuff in that area that was already built and that people relied on.@wolf480pl absolutely, and protocol ossification is a thing
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy i get what you mean but the internet and the world in general had changed a lot since then
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@wolf480pl absolutely, and protocol ossification is a thing
@eloy
that being said, it'd still be nice if universities could pay their graduates to work on new protocols that might not have immediate use -
universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy
This makes me so sad... My uni has completely given up on IT development 
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy It was much easier to refine the technologies underpinning the Internet when the English department wasn’t using it to store all its ungraded essays.
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universities in the 1980s: writing the majority of internet standard RFCs and their implementations
universities now: moving away from Microsoft cloud is really hard okay? 🥺
@eloy Universities just also suffer from neoliberal brain rot. Neoliberal austerity is the cancer.
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@eloy Universities just also suffer from neoliberal brain rot. Neoliberal austerity is the cancer.
@taschenorakel @eloy
"Can I get some real-world experience doing a student job with the IT/Networking department?"
"We slashed their budget and fired most of them, but you might be able to get an unpaid internship with some SaaS company"
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@sidereal @eloy This is what happens when you let business factors drive your tech department. When I was in college, a bit more than 20 years ago, (a tiny rural community college) we had an a Computer Department with an IBM 1132 and a lab with a handful of DEC PDP 8s. I got a part time job assisting Sociology students with their statistical analysis. Great time, and the school consistently punched above its weight.
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@eloy @gnomon I'm low key terrified of what's going to happen to my university over the next 10-15 years as an entire generation of highly technical sysadmins from the 80s and early 90s ages out and retires, with not very many replacements in the pipeline. We have so many home-built, inexpensive, bespoke systems that keep things going, but they really need programmer or system programmer level people around.
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@wollman @eloy @gnomon The problem confronting the university is that it does not have 10x the money (and it can't get it). If you only have 1x the money and there are 10x the costs, you wind up with 1/10th of what you had and that will probably be disastrous. It will probably be especially disastrous if it comes with the related social attitudes towards service provision and network operation.
