#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr. Can plots which hinge on a misunderstanding be done well?
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#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr. Can plots which hinge on a misunderstanding be done well?
Sure! (I did it in my Merchant Princes series, so it MUST be workable
To make it work, it has to be the sort of misunderstanding that either the very powerful or very smart, educated people make.
Committee groupthink is one example.
"Monarchists think governance and policy-setting in a Repubic work like a monarchy so it'll react to a presidential assassination like the death of a king" is another.
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#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr. Can plots which hinge on a misunderstanding be done well?
Sure! (I did it in my Merchant Princes series, so it MUST be workable
To make it work, it has to be the sort of misunderstanding that either the very powerful or very smart, educated people make.
Committee groupthink is one example.
"Monarchists think governance and policy-setting in a Repubic work like a monarchy so it'll react to a presidential assassination like the death of a king" is another.
#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr (contd)
We had a PERFECT example of this in the news headlines thanks to Israel/USA/Iran last month: Iran isn't just a theocracy it's a constitutional republic, like the USA in a funhouse mirror.
Foolish/ignorant western war-focussed policy-makers thought whacking the Supreme Leader would shatter the regime in Tehran. Instead, it triggered a prepared succession mechanism that installed a hard-liner, strengthening the determination of the regime to resist USA/Israel.
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#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr (contd)
We had a PERFECT example of this in the news headlines thanks to Israel/USA/Iran last month: Iran isn't just a theocracy it's a constitutional republic, like the USA in a funhouse mirror.
Foolish/ignorant western war-focussed policy-makers thought whacking the Supreme Leader would shatter the regime in Tehran. Instead, it triggered a prepared succession mechanism that installed a hard-liner, strengthening the determination of the regime to resist USA/Israel.
#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr (3/3)
THAT sort of misunderstanding happens in real life and works fine in fiction.
The sort of misunderstanding that doesn't work in fiction is one that relies on individual protagonists being idiots, or failing to have the thirty second discussion that would clear the air instantly. Which is all too common!
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#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr (3/3)
THAT sort of misunderstanding happens in real life and works fine in fiction.
The sort of misunderstanding that doesn't work in fiction is one that relies on individual protagonists being idiots, or failing to have the thirty second discussion that would clear the air instantly. Which is all too common!
@cstross@wandering.shop I think these 'stupidity dependent' misunderstandings are tempting partly because they are easy, but also because they are easy to justify as 'realistic' because we have all seen people being stupid in relationships. But they fundamentally aren't satisfying because we can see how easily the conflict could be resolved from the outside, sort of a deus ex machina in reverse.
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#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr (3/3)
THAT sort of misunderstanding happens in real life and works fine in fiction.
The sort of misunderstanding that doesn't work in fiction is one that relies on individual protagonists being idiots, or failing to have the thirty second discussion that would clear the air instantly. Which is all too common!
@cstross You've just described 90% of the episodes of the tv show 7th Heaven. They all depended on one member of the family concealing important information from another member for no good reason.
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#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr (3/3)
THAT sort of misunderstanding happens in real life and works fine in fiction.
The sort of misunderstanding that doesn't work in fiction is one that relies on individual protagonists being idiots, or failing to have the thirty second discussion that would clear the air instantly. Which is all too common!
@cstross I'm not sure of that last point.
My impression of the rom-com genre is that it largely depends on a misunderstanding that could be cleared up by a 30-second discussion, which the protagonists steadfastly refuse to have until forced into it near the end of the story. -
@cstross@wandering.shop I think these 'stupidity dependent' misunderstandings are tempting partly because they are easy, but also because they are easy to justify as 'realistic' because we have all seen people being stupid in relationships. But they fundamentally aren't satisfying because we can see how easily the conflict could be resolved from the outside, sort of a deus ex machina in reverse.
@mavnn Yes, exactly. Whereas it's much harder to break out of the Abilene Paradox, to which groups or committees are susceptible, so it makes for *great* widescreen tragedy in fiction:
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@mavnn Yes, exactly. Whereas it's much harder to break out of the Abilene Paradox, to which groups or committees are susceptible, so it makes for *great* widescreen tragedy in fiction:
@cstross@wandering.shop Having been twice made responsible for institutional change in the workplace and then having the person who appointed me lose the authority to push the changes, I have a painfully direct experience of how tough it can be to break out of the Abilene Paradox with a group that has someone well spoken and charismatic in authority who doesn't understand what's happening in the rest of the group. Lots of well meaning people doing things that seem sane, rational, and empathic individually, leading to a Not Good
and emotionally distructive overall situation.Hmm. I think I'm leaking my trauma. But it definitely makes for a stronger plot than 'I need to delay the PoV character five minutes or the entire story ends because they can have a conversation.'
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@HollieK72 @cstross
Fiction needs to be *more* convincing than "real life".Which is a depressingly low bar to surpass.
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@cstross I'm not sure of that last point.
My impression of the rom-com genre is that it largely depends on a misunderstanding that could be cleared up by a 30-second discussion, which the protagonists steadfastly refuse to have until forced into it near the end of the story. -
@cstross I'm not sure of that last point.
My impression of the rom-com genre is that it largely depends on a misunderstanding that could be cleared up by a 30-second discussion, which the protagonists steadfastly refuse to have until forced into it near the end of the story.I think it makes sense to talk about "load bearing misunderstandings." To work in a story, a misunderstanding must be solid enough to carry the weight of plot placed upon it. In the archetypical badly written rom-com, you end up with so much extra scaffoldingput in to precent the plot from collapsing that you can barely even see the supposedly central misunderstanding any more.
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#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr. Can plots which hinge on a misunderstanding be done well?
Sure! (I did it in my Merchant Princes series, so it MUST be workable
To make it work, it has to be the sort of misunderstanding that either the very powerful or very smart, educated people make.
Committee groupthink is one example.
"Monarchists think governance and policy-setting in a Repubic work like a monarchy so it'll react to a presidential assassination like the death of a king" is another.
@cstross Yes. In one of mine, the bad guys misunderstood the heroes defences, resolve, and ability to find an answer to their ultimate weapon. Maybe more of an underestimation, but I think it counts.
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I think it makes sense to talk about "load bearing misunderstandings." To work in a story, a misunderstanding must be solid enough to carry the weight of plot placed upon it. In the archetypical badly written rom-com, you end up with so much extra scaffoldingput in to precent the plot from collapsing that you can barely even see the supposedly central misunderstanding any more.
@skjeggtroll @KatS Maybe remember to include the hashtag next time you reply to a discussion on one?
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@cstross Yes. In one of mine, the bad guys misunderstood the heroes defences, resolve, and ability to find an answer to their ultimate weapon. Maybe more of an underestimation, but I think it counts.
@Verain Again: remember to include the hashtag for the fiction prompt you're replying to!
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#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr (3/3)
THAT sort of misunderstanding happens in real life and works fine in fiction.
The sort of misunderstanding that doesn't work in fiction is one that relies on individual protagonists being idiots, or failing to have the thirty second discussion that would clear the air instantly. Which is all too common!
@cstross Perhaps the question pivots more on the lines between "misunderstanding" and things unknown or unknowable, for various reasons, credible or not.
Hindsight is absent the uncertainty, all is clear, not least when cause and effect is as defined and understood by those biased by surviving the event.
Is a plot point that pivots on a bad model of human politics more or less credible than one that pivots on ignoring the composition of a gas giant? Which misunderstanding will a reader tolerate?
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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#WritersCoffeeClub 17 Apr. Can plots which hinge on a misunderstanding be done well?
Sure! (I did it in my Merchant Princes series, so it MUST be workable
To make it work, it has to be the sort of misunderstanding that either the very powerful or very smart, educated people make.
Committee groupthink is one example.
"Monarchists think governance and policy-setting in a Repubic work like a monarchy so it'll react to a presidential assassination like the death of a king" is another.
@cstross The key aspect of Merchant Princes which hooked me in was the *absence* of a tired, cliche of misunderstanding:
OMG! A portal fantasy where the person in the portal *works it out* and *tests the boundaries* like a real human being! Hook, line and sinker. -
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