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  3. Adults lose skills to AI; Children never build them.

Adults lose skills to AI; Children never build them.

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  • cwebber@social.coopC cwebber@social.coop

    Adults lose skills to AI; Children never build them. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-algorithmic-mind/202603/adults-lose-skills-to-ai-children-never-build-them

    xs4me2@mastodon.socialX This user is from outside of this forum
    xs4me2@mastodon.socialX This user is from outside of this forum
    xs4me2@mastodon.social
    wrote last edited by
    #29

    @cwebber

    Worrying…

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • aatch@mastodon.nzA This user is from outside of this forum
      aatch@mastodon.nzA This user is from outside of this forum
      aatch@mastodon.nz
      wrote last edited by
      #30

      @PattyHanson that's not really the same thing. Checks have been getting rarer and rarer for decades. I haven't seen a check in almost 20 years. Something that was important for you to understand when you were younger just isn't true for your grandson. Your son probably hasn't needed to use a check for a long time either and therefore teaching his kids about them just never came up. He's not failing because he didn't deliberately sit them down and explain what a check is.

      eniko@mastodon.gamedev.placeE 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • C clickymcticker@hachyderm.io

        @lizzard @KatLS @cwebber Many schools try. It’s not easy to teach critical thinking. My school certainly tried to teach me, but I was an awful student. I thankfully had a family who found ways to make sure I learned that, if nothing else.

        lizzard@social.tchncs.deL This user is from outside of this forum
        lizzard@social.tchncs.deL This user is from outside of this forum
        lizzard@social.tchncs.de
        wrote last edited by
        #31

        @ClickyMcTicker @KatLS @cwebber many teachers try. I'm not so sure about the system as a whole. I'm not even thinking about the US here, I'm not from there. Just as a general class education thing.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • cwebber@social.coopC cwebber@social.coop

          Adults lose skills to AI; Children never build them. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-algorithmic-mind/202603/adults-lose-skills-to-ai-children-never-build-them

          tuban_muzuru@beige.partyT This user is from outside of this forum
          tuban_muzuru@beige.partyT This user is from outside of this forum
          tuban_muzuru@beige.party
          wrote last edited by
          #32

          @cwebber

          Considering that the humans are doing an absolutely terrible job, I figure the AI systems can at least be measured....

          Link Preview Image
          NAEP Reading: National Average Scores

          NAEP Report Card: Reading

          favicon

          (www.nationsreportcard.gov)

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          • cwebber@social.coopC cwebber@social.coop

            Adults lose skills to AI; Children never build them. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-algorithmic-mind/202603/adults-lose-skills-to-ai-children-never-build-them

            leckse@social.leckse.netL This user is from outside of this forum
            leckse@social.leckse.netL This user is from outside of this forum
            leckse@social.leckse.net
            wrote last edited by
            #33

            @cwebber Algorithmic complacency kills curiosity and eventually free will.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • cwebber@social.coopC cwebber@social.coop

              Adults lose skills to AI; Children never build them. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-algorithmic-mind/202603/adults-lose-skills-to-ai-children-never-build-them

              aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
              aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
              aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
              wrote last edited by
              #34

              @cwebber i saw that the other day. I found the author's aside about how they use it to summarize "hundreds" of papers a bit alarming.

              aceryz@social.hackerspace.plA eniko@mastodon.gamedev.placeE 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • koen_hufkens@mastodon.socialK koen_hufkens@mastodon.social

                @ai6yr @cwebber When mentoring students I often get the question - how do you figure things out so quickly.

                Then I tell them that I've been messing with hardware and software since I was in my early teens - and I made tons of (innocent) mistakes.

                When you get to be an adult you then know how to approach complex systems where you might not have this much margin.

                Much of it is heuristics. Offloading heuristics (despite biases) is a VERY BAD IDEA.

                davebauerart@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                davebauerart@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                davebauerart@mastodon.social
                wrote last edited by
                #35

                @koen_hufkens @ai6yr @cwebber Everything I ever did for a job was noticing patterns and applying them in new situations.

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                • aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place

                  @cwebber i saw that the other day. I found the author's aside about how they use it to summarize "hundreds" of papers a bit alarming.

                  aceryz@social.hackerspace.plA This user is from outside of this forum
                  aceryz@social.hackerspace.plA This user is from outside of this forum
                  aceryz@social.hackerspace.pl
                  wrote last edited by
                  #36

                  @aeva @cwebber yes, he seems way too optimistic about the situation of "adults", himself included, using this technology.

                  Meanwhile, my university is making LLMs available for students on its platforms with the reasoning, quote:

                  "The available tools are intended to be used responsibly and treated as support in the process of acquiring knowledge and developing one’s own skills."

                  ... and I want to eat my hat. Students supposed to develop their research skill are sąbotaged by the university.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place

                    @cwebber i saw that the other day. I found the author's aside about how they use it to summarize "hundreds" of papers a bit alarming.

                    eniko@mastodon.gamedev.placeE This user is from outside of this forum
                    eniko@mastodon.gamedev.placeE This user is from outside of this forum
                    eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place
                    wrote last edited by
                    #37

                    @aeva @cwebber yeah there was a lot of very confident "well it's okay if *i* do it, i can always spot the problems!"

                    it's like. can you though. can you spot the problems you didn't spot though. how would that work, exactly

                    emi@social.comfy.cityE 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • aatch@mastodon.nzA aatch@mastodon.nz

                      @PattyHanson that's not really the same thing. Checks have been getting rarer and rarer for decades. I haven't seen a check in almost 20 years. Something that was important for you to understand when you were younger just isn't true for your grandson. Your son probably hasn't needed to use a check for a long time either and therefore teaching his kids about them just never came up. He's not failing because he didn't deliberately sit them down and explain what a check is.

                      eniko@mastodon.gamedev.placeE This user is from outside of this forum
                      eniko@mastodon.gamedev.placeE This user is from outside of this forum
                      eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place
                      wrote last edited by
                      #38

                      @aatch @PattyHanson i went my entire life without seeing a paper check until i moved to the US

                      i'm in my 40s

                      kimsj@mastodon.socialK timjan@social.linux.pizzaT 2 Replies Last reply
                      0
                      • eniko@mastodon.gamedev.placeE eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place

                        @aatch @PattyHanson i went my entire life without seeing a paper check until i moved to the US

                        i'm in my 40s

                        kimsj@mastodon.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
                        kimsj@mastodon.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
                        kimsj@mastodon.social
                        wrote last edited by
                        #39

                        @eniko @aatch @PattyHanson
                        Mischievously, I suggest that the failure is of the cheque writer, who hasn’t kept up his education enough to know how to do a bank transfer. 😜

                        pattyhanson@mastodon.socialP 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • eniko@mastodon.gamedev.placeE eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place

                          @aeva @cwebber yeah there was a lot of very confident "well it's okay if *i* do it, i can always spot the problems!"

                          it's like. can you though. can you spot the problems you didn't spot though. how would that work, exactly

                          emi@social.comfy.cityE This user is from outside of this forum
                          emi@social.comfy.cityE This user is from outside of this forum
                          emi@social.comfy.city
                          wrote last edited by
                          #40

                          @eniko @aeva @cwebber He even talks about this with children - children cannot spot problems they never encountered before, but an adult learns with every new thing they see too which has the same exact problems and summaries will inevitably omit certain things you may find problematic as a human.

                          aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • cwebber@social.coopC cwebber@social.coop

                            Adults lose skills to AI; Children never build them. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-algorithmic-mind/202603/adults-lose-skills-to-ai-children-never-build-them

                            hugoestr@functional.cafeH This user is from outside of this forum
                            hugoestr@functional.cafeH This user is from outside of this forum
                            hugoestr@functional.cafe
                            wrote last edited by
                            #41

                            @cwebber Being forced to use it, it feels different

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • eniko@mastodon.gamedev.placeE eniko@mastodon.gamedev.place

                              @aatch @PattyHanson i went my entire life without seeing a paper check until i moved to the US

                              i'm in my 40s

                              timjan@social.linux.pizzaT This user is from outside of this forum
                              timjan@social.linux.pizzaT This user is from outside of this forum
                              timjan@social.linux.pizza
                              wrote last edited by
                              #42

                              @eniko @aatch @PattyHanson

                              I'm of a similar age, and likewise didn't grow up in the US, but I did see checks occasionally used until I was maybe 10yo?

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • kimsj@mastodon.socialK kimsj@mastodon.social

                                @eniko @aatch @PattyHanson
                                Mischievously, I suggest that the failure is of the cheque writer, who hasn’t kept up his education enough to know how to do a bank transfer. 😜

                                pattyhanson@mastodon.socialP This user is from outside of this forum
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                                pattyhanson@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #43

                                @KimSJ @eniko @aatch As a grandmother and the check writer, I choose not to gift via bank transfer or PayPal or any of the other modern methods to transfer money. When a kid opens a birthday card expecting money, they don't get the same excitement from a proof of bank transfer that they do when they see cash. Turns out, checks aren't that exciting either.

                                kimsj@mastodon.socialK 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • emi@social.comfy.cityE emi@social.comfy.city

                                  @eniko @aeva @cwebber He even talks about this with children - children cannot spot problems they never encountered before, but an adult learns with every new thing they see too which has the same exact problems and summaries will inevitably omit certain things you may find problematic as a human.

                                  aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #44

                                  @emi @eniko @cwebber there's also the problem (which iirc the author overlooks) which is what happens when someone repeatedly internalizes noise that statistically resembles information. even if you have the skill to theoretically spot a specific inaccuracy, what happens when you read misinformation restated hundreds of different ways? what happens if you repeatedly scan it without much thought because you're in a hurry?

                                  aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place

                                    @emi @eniko @cwebber there's also the problem (which iirc the author overlooks) which is what happens when someone repeatedly internalizes noise that statistically resembles information. even if you have the skill to theoretically spot a specific inaccuracy, what happens when you read misinformation restated hundreds of different ways? what happens if you repeatedly scan it without much thought because you're in a hurry?

                                    aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                    aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                    aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #45

                                    @emi @eniko @cwebber I imagine the way this works is the skill erosion happens at the edge of your understanding where you can't easily spot it and works its way inward until you don't know anything anymore

                                    aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place

                                      @emi @eniko @cwebber I imagine the way this works is the skill erosion happens at the edge of your understanding where you can't easily spot it and works its way inward until you don't know anything anymore

                                      aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      aeva@mastodon.gamedev.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      aeva@mastodon.gamedev.place
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #46

                                      @emi @eniko @cwebber and if you really are taking the time to fact check every little thing it says, there is no way there is any efficiency benefit to using the slop machine

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • koen_hufkens@mastodon.socialK koen_hufkens@mastodon.social

                                        @ai6yr @cwebber When mentoring students I often get the question - how do you figure things out so quickly.

                                        Then I tell them that I've been messing with hardware and software since I was in my early teens - and I made tons of (innocent) mistakes.

                                        When you get to be an adult you then know how to approach complex systems where you might not have this much margin.

                                        Much of it is heuristics. Offloading heuristics (despite biases) is a VERY BAD IDEA.

                                        grumpasaurus@infosec.exchangeG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        grumpasaurus@infosec.exchangeG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        grumpasaurus@infosec.exchange
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #47

                                        @koen_hufkens @ai6yr @cwebber "I think of the DUMBEST thing possible and then I confirm it."

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • pattyhanson@mastodon.socialP pattyhanson@mastodon.social

                                          @KimSJ @eniko @aatch As a grandmother and the check writer, I choose not to gift via bank transfer or PayPal or any of the other modern methods to transfer money. When a kid opens a birthday card expecting money, they don't get the same excitement from a proof of bank transfer that they do when they see cash. Turns out, checks aren't that exciting either.

                                          kimsj@mastodon.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
                                          kimsj@mastodon.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
                                          kimsj@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #48

                                          @PattyHanson @eniko @aatch
                                          I get that. It is a pity that there is no option to print a “I have sent you this money” card of some kind when you make an online transfer. I guess one could create one.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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