"Where to buy a non-Apple, non-Google smartphone"
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@mihamarkic I've always some difficulties with the phrase "EU based" when it comes to Free and Open Source Software (#FOSS). FOSS is often developed by a worldwide community of people and organizations.
Whet it comes to e.g. cloud hosting, EU jurisdiction is indeed very important, but not for free Linux distributions imo. The user is in full control, the code is transparant.
As a side note: Imagine that all people would collaborate like the FOSS community.
@janvlug How so? If an American company is hosting the cloud (regardless of what software they use), they fall under US jurisdiction no matter where data is stored. And US jurisdiction is a huge risk. If you care about your data that is.
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@janvlug One important question, van it handle BankID and Swish? Made for bankhandling and monytransfer?
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@janvlug For me and everybody else in the nordic countries they use these apps and it's a no go without them.
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@pwaring @janvlug I think(correct me if I’m wrong) that the idea is to use the web browser and a yubikey instead of apps. If a government/bank complains about you not having an android device that’s on them to give you an alternative.
Jan is going full RMS on mobile devices, and I thanks that’s epic!
I use preferably only free and open source apps, native for Linux. Using the browser is also totally fine for me.
I oppose using apps that only are available via Google or Apple, or that only run on their operating systems.
Someone wrote a very informative page about #appdwang (in Dutch):
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang! | appdwang.nl
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang en laat je geen apps opdringen! Op appdwang.nl vind je praktijkvoorbeelden en argumenten om duidelijk te maken wat je van appdwang vindt.
(appdwang.nl)
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@janvlug @Gina How do you deal with Purism‘s enablement of fascists and Nazis by allowing them to utilize their platform as a safe harbor?
PS: There are A TON of articles[^1] about them on the web concerning this topic, and you’d really be hard-pressed not to have heard of any of it; but maybe that’s the goal? “Free” hardware over anything?
[1] Example: https://anarc.at/blog/2019-05-13-free-speech/
Thanks for the link to the article. I was not aware of this concern nor this article. My point of view is that personal freedom is not absolute.
In the Librem One Code of Conduct is stated: "This community will not tolerate harassment of any kind."
Librem One Code of Conduct -
This community is dedicated to providing a harassment-free experience for everyone. We do not tolerate harassment of participants in any form.
(librem.one)
I do not know of any fascist or Nazi content being published on Purism platforms. If there is, please provide me a link, and I will take action.
The Reporting section describes how is dealt with this.
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@janvlug For me and everybody else in the nordic countries they use these apps and it's a no go without them.
@jajo @janvlug Here in Poland there is one kind of instant payments that can't be done without my bank's mobile app (Blik) - but their Android app works fine in Waydroid.
Some banks around the world require platform attestation which is extremely user hostile though. If your bank is among those, you should complain to them and maybe look for alternatives.
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@dos @janvlug I just read in thread from a few weeks back that the modem data connections is unreliable for three years. https://fosstodon.org/@mrlakes@mastodon.nl/116368650601409490
Unfortunately modem data still breaks now and then. To place it in perspective, I loose mobile internet at most once in a few days nowadays. Lack of connectivity is clearly indicated by an icon in the top bar when it happens, so you are at least aware of it.
I have the impression that this connectivity loss happens less and less, but that is a subjective impression. Maybe I should try to measure to be more exact. -
@jajo @janvlug Here in Poland there is one kind of instant payments that can't be done without my bank's mobile app (Blik) - but their Android app works fine in Waydroid.
Some banks around the world require platform attestation which is extremely user hostile though. If your bank is among those, you should complain to them and maybe look for alternatives.
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From a first glance these look like Android devices to me. Personally, I think Android is on a dead end when it comes to being aligned with free software principles.
I really prefer #MobileLinux.
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Unfortunately modem data still breaks now and then. To place it in perspective, I loose mobile internet at most once in a few days nowadays. Lack of connectivity is clearly indicated by an icon in the top bar when it happens, so you are at least aware of it.
I have the impression that this connectivity loss happens less and less, but that is a subjective impression. Maybe I should try to measure to be more exact.@janvlug @codo It's a modem firmware bug that we have no control over. There are workarounds with various tradeoffs, you could put a watchdog for it too. In practice, for me it's only a minor annoyance since flipping the switch is so fast, but I can see it being disruptive for certain use cases.
Fortunately the modem is easily replaceable so we won't be stuck with this forever.
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@Kerplunk Unfortunately the #Librem5 is expensive. Purism has to earn all on the hardware sell. Purism is not gathering data, or pre-installing privacy invasive apps on their devices.
It is possible to support the PureOS development though:
PureOS Optional Subscription Added to Advance Development – Purism
Purism makes premium phones, laptops, mini PCs and servers running free software on PureOS. Purism products respect people's privacy and freedom while protecting their security.
Purism (puri.sm)
But that would cost you even more.
From the other side, the devices have longer support than the average Android phone.
Maybe you can try to get a second hands device via:
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@janvlug
How do you deal with banking and government apps? Those are the main pain point for me since they usually do not work without gplay services@wellsaid I can do all banking below €5000 via the browser. Here in the Netherlands I can still login into government services with SMS as 2FA, so I do not need any app for government.
I oppose #appdwang (in Dutch):
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang! | appdwang.nl
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang en laat je geen apps opdringen! Op appdwang.nl vind je praktijkvoorbeelden en argumenten om duidelijk te maken wat je van appdwang vindt.
(appdwang.nl)
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@janvlug
Just to be sure, which ones still count as mobile tracking devices?@janneke This is a difficult question to answer. First of all, I only really know the #Librem5. Furthermore, you can be tracked via the browser, via connection to telephone antenna's, Wifi and Bluetooth and probably more.
The Librem 5 has kill switches to physically switch of wifi, gsm, camera, and microphone.
Hardware Kill Switches – Purism
There is an increasing threat of cameras and microphones being used to spy on you. Leaked documents have shown plans from the NSA to infect “millions” of computers with malware called CAPTIVATEDAUDIENCE (which turns a computer’s microphone into a bug) and GUMFISH (which turns your camera into a spycam). Such attacks will only become more …
Purism (puri.sm)
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@janvlug If we want opensource mobile OSes to succeed, they need officially supported banking apps and identity verification apps. These are crucial to me but they only exist on iOS and Android.
@superblox I oppose organizations that force me to use #apps from #bigtech platforms.
There is an interesting page in Dutch about #appdwang:
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang! | appdwang.nl
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang en laat je geen apps opdringen! Op appdwang.nl vind je praktijkvoorbeelden en argumenten om duidelijk te maken wat je van appdwang vindt.
(appdwang.nl)
I can bank via the browser, everything below €5000 (I use ASNBank). Identity verification sucks, but often there are options to do it without an app as well. Like going with your id to an office, or someone is visiting you to verify your id.
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@janvlug @codo It's a modem firmware bug that we have no control over. There are workarounds with various tradeoffs, you could put a watchdog for it too. In practice, for me it's only a minor annoyance since flipping the switch is so fast, but I can see it being disruptive for certain use cases.
Fortunately the modem is easily replaceable so we won't be stuck with this forever.
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@janvlug Is encrypted messaging available? Signal?
@khleedril I use Signal Desktop on the #Librem5, installed as #flatpak (unofficial).
Apparently, @signalapp is working towards having Signal Desktop fully independent of the Android and iOS apps.
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@khleedril I use Signal Desktop on the #Librem5, installed as #flatpak (unofficial).
Apparently, @signalapp is working towards having Signal Desktop fully independent of the Android and iOS apps.
@janvlug @khleedril @signalapp I wouldn't recommend compromising Signal's security by using third-party builds. Sadly, the arm64 Electron version isn't fixed yet (same problem on my Asahi laptop), and it's hard to say when it will be. For now, I use Flare—the only missing feature is calls, which I really miss.
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@janvlug
Can you use Signal and some kind of OpenStreetMap navigation? Can you use Android apps in general and is it complicated? Or is it more like using whatever could run on Linux desktop?You can use Android apps with #Wayland on the #Librem5. But personally, I have no experience with Wayland.
For navigation (#openstreetmap based), I use #PureMaps (https://flathub.org/en/apps/io.github.rinigus.PureMaps) and just looking at GNOME maps (https://flathub.org/en/apps/org.gnome.Maps).
Indeed, it is like using whatever could run on the #Linux desktop. Ideally, adaptive applications:
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@janvlug
Except for the fact that they all are way out of my budget for a phone (I don't want to waste more than 200 € for a phone!), I'm not sure all "mandatory" apps I have to use are compatible with those phones (bank, government, SPID, school and health-related, ...) and anyway I won't spend such money unless I'm sure of that.
Sorry, would really love to switch (especially to EU phones!), but can't afford that.@AAMfP The force to using #apps from #bigtech is really annoying. There is a page in Dutch about it:
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang! | appdwang.nl
Bied weerstand tegen appdwang en laat je geen apps opdringen! Op appdwang.nl vind je praktijkvoorbeelden en argumenten om duidelijk te maken wat je van appdwang vindt.
(appdwang.nl)
Personally, I resist using apps that only are provided and work on big tech platforms. I manage to do most of what I want.
Regarding the price, see: https://mastodon.social/@janvlug/116510085888567116
