Is it OK to run software written with the help of AI/LLMs on the Fediverse?
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@evan@cosocial.ca for me personally, who am not a software engineer and have been trying to find a dev to work with for almost three years now (since Firefish started steering towards a dead-end), it's been an invaluable tool. And I'm very happy with the results I've achieved - I've literally made more progress on my own in one month than we did in several months in Firefish, with several devs helping. Changed and fixed things that have annoyed me for years. It has been super creative for me, and has also helped me a lot to deal with depression.
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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@evan No, but harm reduction suggests it might be better than e.g. using Meta products, so slop that isn't owned by a company complicit in multiple genocides is an improvement, even if still an ethical and practical (security, for example) problem.
I hate giving in to lesser evilism, though. Can we just do good things instead of always bargaining for a decrease in evil?
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@evan@cosocial.ca We had poorly written Fediverse software before LLMs could write code. It doesn’t change much.
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@evan *Maybe* once LLM scraping bots stop hammering servers around the world, making human-scale online infrastructure dramatically harder than it was just a few years ago, we can have a discussion. Until then it's not just a No, it's a case where everyone who says Yes is an enemy of the very existence of anything like The Fediverse, whether they've admitted that to themselves or not.
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@evan I'd say it depends. If we're talking about vibe coded slop, no. An LLM used for accessibility reasons, yes. Does it humanize or dehumanize, that is the question.
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@evan I'd say it depends. If we're talking about vibe coded slop, no. An LLM used for accessibility reasons, yes. Does it humanize or dehumanize, that is the question.
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@evan Yes but it has to be tested and not just thrown together in a day or two.
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Yes, it's better used as a reviewer than as a coder, but it sure is faster than looking up how to use a specific library, etc.
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I ran a somewhat related poll a while ago.
@reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman: (@reiver@mastodon.social)
Fediverse & AI Coding Tools & Vibe Coding ... I noticed 2 or 3 people lately using AI coding tools to create Fediverse software. 2 of them even seemed to be Vibe Coding. ... I have been programming for over 30 years. I am probably not going to Vibe Code, but — I wonder if we should help them. There are tools we (Fediverse developers) could create to make it so others could Vibe Code Fediverse apps. #ActivityPub #AICodingTools #Fedidev #Fedidevs #Fediverse #JSONLD #VibeCoding [ ] Yes, help them. [ ] No! (explain why in comments)
Mastodon (mastodon.social)
It got different sentiment in the results than what I am seeing with your poll.
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I ran a somewhat related poll a while ago.
@reiver ⊼ (Charles) :batman: (@reiver@mastodon.social)
Fediverse & AI Coding Tools & Vibe Coding ... I noticed 2 or 3 people lately using AI coding tools to create Fediverse software. 2 of them even seemed to be Vibe Coding. ... I have been programming for over 30 years. I am probably not going to Vibe Code, but — I wonder if we should help them. There are tools we (Fediverse developers) could create to make it so others could Vibe Code Fediverse apps. #ActivityPub #AICodingTools #Fedidev #Fedidevs #Fediverse #JSONLD #VibeCoding [ ] Yes, help them. [ ] No! (explain why in comments)
Mastodon (mastodon.social)
It got different sentiment in the results than what I am seeing with your poll.
@reiver Yes, it's really interesting to see the difference. Maybe your phrasing, suggesting being neighbourly and helpful, brought out a different feeling in people?
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@reiver Yes, it's really interesting to see the difference. Maybe your phrasing, suggesting being neighbourly and helpful, brought out a different feeling in people?
@reiver Or maybe they read "help them" as "help them see the error of their ways"?
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@mmm_kay LOL
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@arthfach Why?
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@evan Yes, but with legitimate purposes such as automating posts from other platforms
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@evan Canadians have contributed a lot of open source software where their only ask is to be properly credited, and that's being completely disregarded. Add in the fact that many (most?) LLM companies are run by companies that openly support Donald Trump, so using them is funding groups who want to strip Canadians of our sovereignty to steal from our neighbours.
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What I'm hearing, I think, is roughly this: there are several reasons AI-assisted software is bad (provenance, skill atrophy, politics of AI companies, environmental impact listed, but there are more).
These are severe enough that AI-assisted software is materially different than other kinds of undesirable software, like proprietary software. One doesn't want such software to exist at all, on or off the Fediverse.
Is that about right?
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@arthfach Thanks, that's kind.
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What I'm hearing, I think, is roughly this: there are several reasons AI-assisted software is bad (provenance, skill atrophy, politics of AI companies, environmental impact listed, but there are more).
These are severe enough that AI-assisted software is materially different than other kinds of undesirable software, like proprietary software. One doesn't want such software to exist at all, on or off the Fediverse.
Is that about right?
One thing we do on open networks is have kind of a live-and-let-live attitude towards software we don't like. Like, one might not like proprietary software, but one doesn't keep people using it from being on the Internet or on the Web.
In this case, I think you're saying, there's a combination of two factors. First, the Fediverse is not that kind of network -- we have shared values that we want to enforce. And second, AI-assisted software is too problematic to allow.
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One thing we do on open networks is have kind of a live-and-let-live attitude towards software we don't like. Like, one might not like proprietary software, but one doesn't keep people using it from being on the Internet or on the Web.
In this case, I think you're saying, there's a combination of two factors. First, the Fediverse is not that kind of network -- we have shared values that we want to enforce. And second, AI-assisted software is too problematic to allow.
@evan @Arthfach @xgranade Most software is not based on stealing the commons and polluting the earth. Most software can be coexisted with because it does not destroy things around it by existing (scraper DDOS, people withholding things from publication because licenses can no longer be used to limit commerical exploitation, elimination of non-model-based software, mandatory infusion of "AI" into major platforms). "AI" does in fact knock things that are not "AI" off the web.
