systemd lost the plot a long time ago.
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@nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft blegh! this type of dependency on something that should be totally independent is a sign of structural failure, i suppose..
i've been a debian fanby for the longest time but maybe it's time to look into other distros. can anyone recommend me which are the most "mainstream"/well-maintained non-systemd distros?
blegh! this type of dependency on something that should be totally independent is a sign of structural failure, i suppose..
Exactly this.
Systemd has completely lost sight of its entire purpose. It should be simple, minimal, and just get the job done. It sure shouldn't become... this...
(And I too am a Debian person. I kind of don't really want to switch right now though.)
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systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
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@nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft blegh! this type of dependency on something that should be totally independent is a sign of structural failure, i suppose..
i've been a debian fanby for the longest time but maybe it's time to look into other distros. can anyone recommend me which are the most "mainstream"/well-maintained non-systemd distros?
@bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft Devuan is Debian with an alternative init.
Antix provides multiple init implementations.
FreeBSD is not hard if you are used to Debian.
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systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
@nixCraft I'm most worried about debut of AGENTS.md file and what says about judgment of project leaders and maintainers, and who they allow to touch codebase. millions of folks de facto need to trust every frickin commit into systemd since its on the critical path on tons of Linux hosts by now. I saw one individual in particular, working on one key subsystem who I would not trust on a system this critical, esp if that individ is also "using AI" and also gets to blame any malware-enabling commits "on some AI" rather than their own brain/hand. they could be setting us up
I'm a fan of Lennart Poettering in general but I worry he's gotten distracted by spinning up his startup Amutable
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@bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft Devuan is Debian with an alternative init.
Antix provides multiple init implementations.
FreeBSD is not hard if you are used to Debian.
@distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I didn't know about this Devuan. That's kind of interesting. Perhaps that might help keep some of the compatibility I currently enjoy. I hope. I may have to give it a good look.
Thanks!
EDIT: Devuan has a page listing a number of distros with alternative inits it seems: https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom
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@nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft blegh! this type of dependency on something that should be totally independent is a sign of structural failure, i suppose..
i've been a debian fanby for the longest time but maybe it's time to look into other distros. can anyone recommend me which are the most "mainstream"/well-maintained non-systemd distros?
@bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft I just yesterday switched from debian to void linux but if you want a debian like experience then theres devuan!
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systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
@nixCraft Unix philosophy is unnecessary and questionable, just like age verification.
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@distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I didn't know about this Devuan. That's kind of interesting. Perhaps that might help keep some of the compatibility I currently enjoy. I hope. I may have to give it a good look.
Thanks!
EDIT: Devuan has a page listing a number of distros with alternative inits it seems: https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom
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systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
@nixCraft I'm not going back to shell scripts and fucking rc.local. Is there any usable alternative?
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@nixCraft Unix philosophy is unnecessary and questionable, just like age verification.
@gjerma
I still think politics should be done by groups like eff and fsf. The indicidual projects should just ask for direction from them. If that isnt possible, making some kind of union for foss workers or collectives could work. I still think code specialists and politucs specialists are seldom the same person which is the root of the problem imo.
@nixCraft -
systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
@nixCraft I really tried to ignore the systemd drama as long as my system worked but I guess I have to look for a guide now on how to replace systemd on arch linux. Does gnome even work without systemd?
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@bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft Devuan is Debian with an alternative init.
Antix provides multiple init implementations.
FreeBSD is not hard if you are used to Debian.
@distrowatch @bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft I've had an excellent experience with MX, which recently reinstated their classic dual-init support: https://mxlinux.org/blog/mx-25-dual-init-setup/
Now it's dual-init by default. My favorite Debian-based distro.
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systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
@nixCraft Please, just stop using the term "Unix philosophy" as a fetish. There's a ton of great software that does not follow it, and I've seen enough failing init scripts in my life to convince me that endlessly stringing tools together with pipes is not a robust way of writing software.
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@distrowatch @bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft I've had an excellent experience with MX, which recently reinstated their classic dual-init support: https://mxlinux.org/blog/mx-25-dual-init-setup/
Now it's dual-init by default. My favorite Debian-based distro.
@jandi @distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I'm not sure I understand the benefit of dual init. Doesn't that mean you get the bloat and downsides of systemd while also using sysvinit for some reason? You're still going to have all the stuff that people want to avoid with systemd while it's installed and doing its thing, just with added complexity.
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systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
glad Slackware stays out of this
different approaches are fine, but I still prefer simple rc scripts and small tools over one big system doing everything.
#slackware
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@jandi @distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I'm not sure I understand the benefit of dual init. Doesn't that mean you get the bloat and downsides of systemd while also using sysvinit for some reason? You're still going to have all the stuff that people want to avoid with systemd while it's installed and doing its thing, just with added complexity.
@nazokiyoubinbou @distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft The distro supports both. As you can see in the linked post you can easily remove either, but you can also pick and choose at every boot, for any purpose (troubleshooting, dev, debug, etc). MX is a decidedly pro-user distro.
In the same vein, you can use flatpaks, snaps, appimages, debs, containers, whatever, if you so choose. It's quite flexible but not (IMO) overwhelming.
Still, of course, not everything for everyone, it might not be for you.
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@nixCraft Please, just stop using the term "Unix philosophy" as a fetish. There's a ton of great software that does not follow it, and I've seen enough failing init scripts in my life to convince me that endlessly stringing tools together with pipes is not a robust way of writing software.
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systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd
@nixCraft but now gnome and kde enforce systemd usage..
We're fucked. -
Sorry, but there is no logical reason for systemd to need details that specific and precise for any purpose other than age verification.
If it were for birthday lookups for 'well wishers', it would be held in the calendar app. If it were for parental control, it would be under that heading, and only as a toggle of yes/no, on access to XYZ.
To think that it has a place in sustemd at all leads to a question of why any PPI data is necessary in ANY subsystem. It's not.
