systemd lost the plot a long time ago.

[nixcraft@mastodon.social]

systemd lost the plot a long time ago. they stopped following the Unix philosophy and now they're busy adding nonsense like age verification. Just like Firefox, systemd doesn't understand its core user base. There are plenty of distros without systemd

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@nixCraft It really has been taking a very wrong direction for quite some time. Lots of bloat and unnecessary components, poor standards, etc etc.

Apparently OpenRC is a really good alternative, but it comes at the catch that a lot of stuff is built to call systemd a dependency and will claim it can't work without it. *Sigh* Hopefully all this will result in a general switch away from that hot mess and proper support from everything for, well, anything else...

[miekg@mastodon.nl]

@nixCraft uh. What now
I think not

[unlogic@hachyderm.io]

@nixCraft for those also asking "but nixCraft, what are these distros?" Here's a few links

https://nosystemd.org/#alternatives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Linux_distributions_without_systemd
https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Linux_distributions_without_systemd/

[tarix29@tech.lgbt]

@nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft this is one reason I'm really happy that OpenRC-based Alpine Linux is seeing wider adoption. It's often used as a base for docker images and VPSs (I also use it on a VPS). Hopefully this leads to wider adoption of OpenRC and other unit systems

[bazkie@beige.party]

@nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft blegh! this type of dependency on something that should be totally independent is a sign of structural failure, i suppose..

i've been a debian fanby for the longest time but maybe it's time to look into other distros. can anyone recommend me which are the most "mainstream"/well-maintained non-systemd distros?

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@bazkie @nixCraft

blegh! this type of dependency on something that should be totally independent is a sign of structural failure, i suppose..

Exactly this.

Systemd has completely lost sight of its entire purpose. It should be simple, minimal, and just get the job done. It sure shouldn't become... this...

(And I too am a Debian person. I kind of don't really want to switch right now though.)

[alter_unicorn@masto.bike]

@nixCraft WTF?

edit: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/40954

[distrowatch@mastodon.social]

@bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft Devuan is Debian with an alternative init.

Antix provides multiple init implementations.

FreeBSD is not hard if you are used to Debian.

[synlogic4242@social.vivaldi.net]

@nixCraft I'm most worried about debut of AGENTS.md file and what says about judgment of project leaders and maintainers, and who they allow to touch codebase. millions of folks de facto need to trust every frickin commit into systemd since its on the critical path on tons of Linux hosts by now. I saw one individual in particular, working on one key subsystem who I would not trust on a system this critical, esp if that individ is also "using AI" and also gets to blame any malware-enabling commits "on some AI" rather than their own brain/hand. they could be setting us up

I'm a fan of Lennart Poettering in general but I worry he's gotten distracted by spinning up his startup Amutable

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I didn't know about this Devuan. That's kind of interesting. Perhaps that might help keep some of the compatibility I currently enjoy. I hope. I may have to give it a good look.

Thanks!

EDIT: Devuan has a page listing a number of distros with alternative inits it seems: https://www.devuan.org/os/init-freedom

[joonq@mastodon.social]

@bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft I just yesterday switched from debian to void linux but if you want a debian like experience then theres devuan!

[gjerma@mastodon.social]

@nixCraft Unix philosophy is unnecessary and questionable, just like age verification.

[bazkie@beige.party]

@nazokiyoubinbou @distrowatch @nixCraft same!

[hisold@toot.io]

@nixCraft I'm not going back to shell scripts and fucking rc.local. Is there any usable alternative?

[haui@mastodon.giftedmc.com]

@gjerma
I still think politics should be done by groups like eff and fsf. The indicidual projects should just ask for direction from them. If that isnt possible, making some kind of union for foss workers or collectives could work. I still think code specialists and politucs specialists are seldom the same person which is the root of the problem imo.
@nixCraft

[marco@mastodon.skup.in]

@nixCraft I really tried to ignore the systemd drama as long as my system worked but I guess I have to look for a guide now on how to replace systemd on arch linux. Does gnome even work without systemd?

[jandi@mastodon.social]

@distrowatch @bazkie @nazokiyoubinbou @nixCraft I've had an excellent experience with MX, which recently reinstated their classic dual-init support: https://mxlinux.org/blog/mx-25-dual-init-setup/

Now it's dual-init by default. My favorite Debian-based distro.

[hokid@mastodon.social]

@nixCraft Please, just stop using the term "Unix philosophy" as a fetish. There's a ton of great software that does not follow it, and I've seen enough failing init scripts in my life to convince me that endlessly stringing tools together with pipes is not a robust way of writing software.

[nazokiyoubinbou@urusai.social]

@jandi @distrowatch @bazkie @nixCraft I'm not sure I understand the benefit of dual init. Doesn't that mean you get the bloat and downsides of systemd while also using sysvinit for some reason? You're still going to have all the stuff that people want to avoid with systemd while it's installed and doing its thing, just with added complexity.