“Complying in advance” is when you go out of your way to do things that you don’t have to do to support authoritarian overreach.
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@smolbrain yeah if there was a law mandating we collect IDs or create profiles or do something discriminatory then you bet I would absolutely rage against that. Maybe people don’t know or remember that I pressured Hughsie to remove queer content warnings from OARS. I feel like my track record here should mean something
@danirabbit 1000% track record should be part of the perspective. It definitely helps keep in focus. While some compromises will be made. There are still red lines. Even i feel like... red lines are meaningless from so many lately because everyone keeps drawing a line... and now e have ICE allowed to target trans people. But your right. Just because so many have breached consciousness. We cannot fall into the mind trap of nihilism and pessimism that everyone will because some have. Either way. I wish you the best of luck. I did try elementary OS. Its a really interesting project. Not what I needed right now. But I like the idea and I hope to keep seeing it grow
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When you tell me to just not implement age declaration, do you understand you’re asking me to risk thousands of dollars in fines? Which means realistically the only way for me to not follow the law is to close my business and stop making elementary OS. Do you think it makes sense for me to decide to have no income right now in the middle of massive tech layoffs in a purely symbolic act of protest? Do you really fully understand this is what you’re asking of me?
@danirabbit Yeah, I mean the current iterations of these laws from my understanding are just "have a way to enter the user's age and expose it to apps", which seems pretty harmless.
I wonder if, for now, you can simply comply be geoblocking the affected regions though? As a non-American I don't want the OS I run to be affected by a foreign country's laws, which this age API stuff atm is still ...
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@danirabbit Yeah, I mean the current iterations of these laws from my understanding are just "have a way to enter the user's age and expose it to apps", which seems pretty harmless.
I wonder if, for now, you can simply comply be geoblocking the affected regions though? As a non-American I don't want the OS I run to be affected by a foreign country's laws, which this age API stuff atm is still ...
@danirabbit Same with the OSA for example - they specifically want "highly effective age checks" for anything with user-generated content which rn means Persona/uploading IDs or a government app that only runs on devices with SafetyNet/Apple. For the OSA, doing at the very least a geoblock of terf island and adding a TOS that declares the user to be anything but British feels less harmful than sending their ID to Thiel/Palantir or requiring they have a foreign iPhone/SafetyNet-enabled device
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“Complying in advance” is when you go out of your way to do things that you don’t have to do to support authoritarian overreach.
“Complying in advance” is not when you follow laws that have passed and have clearly defined penalties
Learn what phrases mean, maybe
@danirabbit yeah, that stuff is the reason why the Kremlin hardly needs to actively censor the russian newspapers. They simply report within Kremlin interests out of fear of potential consequences.
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@danirabbit Yeah, I mean the current iterations of these laws from my understanding are just "have a way to enter the user's age and expose it to apps", which seems pretty harmless.
I wonder if, for now, you can simply comply be geoblocking the affected regions though? As a non-American I don't want the OS I run to be affected by a foreign country's laws, which this age API stuff atm is still ...
@pojntfx I live in California
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@pojntfx I live in California
@danirabbit Oh shoot, does that make it impossible for elementaryOS to not comply because it or you are a California entity? Or would it just mean that a Californian has to use a VPN to access say the elementaryOS APT repos? I thought it was based on whether or not you serve Californian customers, like how the OSA applies only if you serve British customers
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When you tell me to just not implement age declaration, do you understand you’re asking me to risk thousands of dollars in fines? Which means realistically the only way for me to not follow the law is to close my business and stop making elementary OS. Do you think it makes sense for me to decide to have no income right now in the middle of massive tech layoffs in a purely symbolic act of protest? Do you really fully understand this is what you’re asking of me?
Thank you. I have blocked a lot of people who have called me a fascist recently.
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@danirabbit Oh shoot, does that make it impossible for elementaryOS to not comply because it or you are a California entity? Or would it just mean that a Californian has to use a VPN to access say the elementaryOS APT repos? I thought it was based on whether or not you serve Californian customers, like how the OSA applies only if you serve British customers
@pojntfx IANAL, but from what I understand it applies to “operating system providers” and “covered app stores” which would include elementary and appcenter
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@pojntfx IANAL, but from what I understand it applies to “operating system providers” and “covered app stores” which would include elementary and appcenter
@danirabbit Hmm, I understand. That's unfortunate if it's indeed based on where it's registered and not on where your customers are from
https://archlinux32.org/ has decided to comply by geoblocking affected regions, I guess they probably aren't affected by this then because they aren't a Californian/US entity?
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When you tell me to just not implement age declaration, do you understand you’re asking me to risk thousands of dollars in fines? Which means realistically the only way for me to not follow the law is to close my business and stop making elementary OS. Do you think it makes sense for me to decide to have no income right now in the middle of massive tech layoffs in a purely symbolic act of protest? Do you really fully understand this is what you’re asking of me?
@danirabbit which bill/law is being referred to here?
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When you tell me to just not implement age declaration, do you understand you’re asking me to risk thousands of dollars in fines? Which means realistically the only way for me to not follow the law is to close my business and stop making elementary OS. Do you think it makes sense for me to decide to have no income right now in the middle of massive tech layoffs in a purely symbolic act of protest? Do you really fully understand this is what you’re asking of me?
@danirabbit
Please correct me, if I'm wrong:
The implementation doesn't make much sense, as long as I have root privileges in my computer, as I can disable it?
@neil -
“Complying in advance” is when you go out of your way to do things that you don’t have to do to support authoritarian overreach.
“Complying in advance” is not when you follow laws that have passed and have clearly defined penalties
Learn what phrases mean, maybe
@danirabbit yes, I have also had this argument.
You don’t have to like the law, but pretending it’s not the law won’t help.
You can choose to disobey the law, even, but still need to be aware that this is a very different thing than disobeying an instruction/request/suggestion that doesn’t have the force of law.
(Mostly I just think the phrase is overused, by people whose understanding of fascism comes from reading a synopsis of a Timothy Snyder book.)
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@danirabbit
Please correct me, if I'm wrong:
The implementation doesn't make much sense, as long as I have root privileges in my computer, as I can disable it?
@neil@khw sure you can disable it, but then any application trying to access the age API will block the content you’re trying to access. It’s much easier to just type in an age that’s over 18. Be born in 1975 or something
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When you tell me to just not implement age declaration, do you understand you’re asking me to risk thousands of dollars in fines? Which means realistically the only way for me to not follow the law is to close my business and stop making elementary OS. Do you think it makes sense for me to decide to have no income right now in the middle of massive tech layoffs in a purely symbolic act of protest? Do you really fully understand this is what you’re asking of me?
@danirabbit Here’s an idea. Instead of implementing age verification, one could implement a dialog confirming that user is not located in California.
Also, Estonia offers no-requirement e-residency and ability to set up a company. All without leaving your computer. Just saying.
There are many ways to fight bad laws and it seems to me that you might be in a position of significant influence here to do just that.
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@danirabbit i definitely understand the perspective of following the laws passed as written lest facing literal ruin. Personally I read the outrage as an extreme fear of slow boiling. While right now it may just be entering a fake 18 in a text box. There is a fear of continued extrapolation (that to be fair hasn't actually happened yet). That the next step "Isn't that bad" and so on. Many see it as, one step down that path is one too many. Give a facist a cookie kind of thinking.
I understand this too and... im so conflicted. I agree we shouldn't give an inch on some things. But when you threaten good people trying to do the right thing and who are otherwise absolute allies... the calculation is never simple. Everyone is scared and hurting... im sorry FOSS creators like you are targeted like this... and im sorry we, those without, are all being taken advantage of by those "with".
@alice @danirabbit @smolbrain but if you don't attack your allies for not being as Pure and committed to your ideals as you, what's the point of being a leftist?
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@danirabbit Here’s an idea. Instead of implementing age verification, one could implement a dialog confirming that user is not located in California.
Also, Estonia offers no-requirement e-residency and ability to set up a company. All without leaving your computer. Just saying.
There are many ways to fight bad laws and it seems to me that you might be in a position of significant influence here to do just that.
@k that’s not how things work. I’m technically incorporated in Delaware, but I pay payroll in California and I work here in California thus I “do business” in California and I have to register with the Secretary of State and pay taxes here and follow regulations
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@danirabbit which bill/law is being referred to here?
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@solitha @danirabbit wow, thank you for sharing that
I wonder how they expect enterprise installs to satisfy this... what is the age of a system account, if that's all that logs in?
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@solitha @danirabbit wow, thank you for sharing that
I wonder how they expect enterprise installs to satisfy this... what is the age of a system account, if that's all that logs in?
@solitha @danirabbit or if a system is multi-user, which user's age matters?
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@solitha @danirabbit or if a system is multi-user, which user's age matters?
@r0k It's pretty bare-bones with a lot of question marks remaining.
From what I understand, they passed the law intending to amend it into a viable state... which really leaves devs twisting in the wind.
Kind of typical of California legislation. Probably good intention, but bad implementation.
