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  3. Is empathy political?

Is empathy political?

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theoryofminddoubleempathyneurodivergentactuallyautisti
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  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
    katyelphinstone@mas.to
    wrote last edited by
    #1

    Is empathy political?
    A thread on autistic empathy.

    A still-quite-popular belief about autistic people is that we lack empathy.

    I think this is faulty logic.
    Here's why:

    A thread 🧵

    1/10

    #ActuallyAutistic #Neurodivergent
    #DoubleEmpathy #TheoryOfMind

    katyelphinstone@mas.toK rmblaber1956@mastodon.socialR ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG 3 Replies Last reply
    0
    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

      Is empathy political?
      A thread on autistic empathy.

      A still-quite-popular belief about autistic people is that we lack empathy.

      I think this is faulty logic.
      Here's why:

      A thread 🧵

      1/10

      #ActuallyAutistic #Neurodivergent
      #DoubleEmpathy #TheoryOfMind

      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
      katyelphinstone@mas.to
      wrote last edited by
      #2

      It's true we may lack socially approved ways of expressing fellow-feeling.

      Ones that are aware of status and social positioning, and the importance of social performance.

      Which could, in a lot of contexts, get read as not caring 🤷‍♀️

      But…

      2/10

      katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

        It's true we may lack socially approved ways of expressing fellow-feeling.

        Ones that are aware of status and social positioning, and the importance of social performance.

        Which could, in a lot of contexts, get read as not caring 🤷‍♀️

        But…

        2/10

        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
        katyelphinstone@mas.to
        wrote last edited by
        #3

        Maybe our empathy just looks different?

        I think autistic empathy can be quite practical (if we're not feeling overwhelmed or under pressure).

        And genuine - if not always very smoothly expressed.

        3/10

        katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

          Maybe our empathy just looks different?

          I think autistic empathy can be quite practical (if we're not feeling overwhelmed or under pressure).

          And genuine - if not always very smoothly expressed.

          3/10

          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
          katyelphinstone@mas.to
          wrote last edited by
          #4

          When I was young I'd feel awful about myself if certain people expressed sympathy for me, but I hated it.

          I thought there was something wrong with me!

          Now, I think I was reacting to incongruence... my skin prickling.

          4/10

          katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

            When I was young I'd feel awful about myself if certain people expressed sympathy for me, but I hated it.

            I thought there was something wrong with me!

            Now, I think I was reacting to incongruence... my skin prickling.

            4/10

            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
            katyelphinstone@mas.to
            wrote last edited by
            #5

            Now I know that a lot of what gets called "empathy" isn't quite that simple.

            It can be about showing deference, or superiority. Or virtue signaling.

            Pleasing the right people, in the right ways, at the right times. Making yourself look like a good person.

            5/10

            #PowerDynamics #Hierarchy

            katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

              Now I know that a lot of what gets called "empathy" isn't quite that simple.

              It can be about showing deference, or superiority. Or virtue signaling.

              Pleasing the right people, in the right ways, at the right times. Making yourself look like a good person.

              5/10

              #PowerDynamics #Hierarchy

              katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
              katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
              katyelphinstone@mas.to
              wrote last edited by
              #6

              Now we're onto the topic of power dynamics 😁

              I've noticed autistic empathy can be rather unorthodox. 💟

              That could mean feeling compassion for animals, plants, trees, octopuses, sharks, avatars, our plushies… or even inanimate objects.

              🧸

              6/10

              katyelphinstone@mas.toK elexia@catcatnya.comE 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                Now we're onto the topic of power dynamics 😁

                I've noticed autistic empathy can be rather unorthodox. 💟

                That could mean feeling compassion for animals, plants, trees, octopuses, sharks, avatars, our plushies… or even inanimate objects.

                🧸

                6/10

                katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                katyelphinstone@mas.to
                wrote last edited by
                #7

                So perhaps it's about direction of travel?

                Service and deference, in society, are meant to flow upwards.

                Yet we autistics, it seems, are more likely to feel for the excluded person, the animal or child… the spider in the bath, or the earthworm on a sunny road.

                7/10

                #Autistic

                katyelphinstone@mas.toK vervain@sunny.gardenV 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                  So perhaps it's about direction of travel?

                  Service and deference, in society, are meant to flow upwards.

                  Yet we autistics, it seems, are more likely to feel for the excluded person, the animal or child… the spider in the bath, or the earthworm on a sunny road.

                  7/10

                  #Autistic

                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                  katyelphinstone@mas.to
                  wrote last edited by
                  #8

                  Empathy is usually believed to be a personal virtue, that some people have and others don’t.

                  I don't think that's the whole story.

                  It’s also shaped by power. By conditioning. By rewards and punishments. By who’s allowed to have needs, and who's trained to attend to them.

                  8/10

                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                    Empathy is usually believed to be a personal virtue, that some people have and others don’t.

                    I don't think that's the whole story.

                    It’s also shaped by power. By conditioning. By rewards and punishments. By who’s allowed to have needs, and who's trained to attend to them.

                    8/10

                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                    katyelphinstone@mas.to
                    wrote last edited by
                    #9

                    Autistic people often don't fit that mold.

                    We get called rigid, naive, inappropriate. But I think it might be a lot more to do with ethical consistency.

                    If we’re told honesty matters, we tell the truth. If we’re taught kindness matters, we try to direct it where it seems most needed.

                    9/10

                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                    1
                    0
                    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                      Autistic people often don't fit that mold.

                      We get called rigid, naive, inappropriate. But I think it might be a lot more to do with ethical consistency.

                      If we’re told honesty matters, we tell the truth. If we’re taught kindness matters, we try to direct it where it seems most needed.

                      9/10

                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                      katyelphinstone@mas.to
                      wrote last edited by
                      #10

                      So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                      Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                      And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                      End of 🧵

                      Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                      katyelphinstone@mas.toK 401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.placeJ autisticdoctorstruggles@mas.toA astridpoot@mastodon.socialA 6 Replies Last reply
                      0
                      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                        So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                        Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                        And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                        End of 🧵

                        Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                        katyelphinstone@mas.to
                        wrote last edited by
                        #11

                        Link Preview Image
                        Is empathy political? an article on autistic empathy, by K.J. Elphinstone

                        Instead of autistic people lacking empathy, our empathy may simply be expressed differently – both in its form, and its direction of travel.

                        favicon

                        Neurofabulous (www.neurofabulous.org.uk)

                        coppercrush@beige.partyC loki_laufeyiarson@mastodon.socialL 2 Replies Last reply
                        0
                        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                          So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                          Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                          And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                          End of 🧵

                          Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                          401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 This user is from outside of this forum
                          401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 This user is from outside of this forum
                          401matthall@mastodon.xyz
                          wrote last edited by
                          #12

                          @KatyElphinstone

                          I'm quite happy to be misaligned with _that_ social order. ❤

                          katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • 401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 401matthall@mastodon.xyz

                            @KatyElphinstone

                            I'm quite happy to be misaligned with _that_ social order. ❤

                            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                            katyelphinstone@mas.to
                            wrote last edited by
                            #13

                            @401matthall

                            Exactly 🥂

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                              Now we're onto the topic of power dynamics 😁

                              I've noticed autistic empathy can be rather unorthodox. 💟

                              That could mean feeling compassion for animals, plants, trees, octopuses, sharks, avatars, our plushies… or even inanimate objects.

                              🧸

                              6/10

                              elexia@catcatnya.comE This user is from outside of this forum
                              elexia@catcatnya.comE This user is from outside of this forum
                              elexia@catcatnya.com
                              wrote last edited by
                              #14

                              @KatyElphinstone yes, we feel strong compassion for non-humans and we feel for plushies too. it makes us uncomfortable when others treat plushies roughly and carelessly.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                Is empathy political?
                                A thread on autistic empathy.

                                A still-quite-popular belief about autistic people is that we lack empathy.

                                I think this is faulty logic.
                                Here's why:

                                A thread 🧵

                                1/10

                                #ActuallyAutistic #Neurodivergent
                                #DoubleEmpathy #TheoryOfMind

                                rmblaber1956@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                rmblaber1956@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                                rmblaber1956@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #15

                                @KatyElphinstone It is total nonsense - & insulting nonsense - to say that we lack #empathy. I well remember my reaction to hearing the story of two #Palestinian #parents in #Gaza whose infant son had been reduced to dismembered pieces in a plastic bag by #Israeli #bombing. I was reduced to helpless tears. Lack of empathy? I don't think so!

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                  So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                                  Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                                  And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                                  End of 🧵

                                  Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                                  jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.placeJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.placeJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.place
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @KatyElphinstone If I where to generalize, going just by the people I know, it seems more to me like it's the 'allistics' who are empathy-impaired, and masking+projecting.

                                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.placeJ jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.place

                                    @KatyElphinstone If I where to generalize, going just by the people I know, it seems more to me like it's the 'allistics' who are empathy-impaired, and masking+projecting.

                                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                    katyelphinstone@mas.to
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @jordgubben

                                    I honestly think it's our whole society, as it stands, that's empathy impaired 🤷‍♀️

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                      Link Preview Image
                                      Is empathy political? an article on autistic empathy, by K.J. Elphinstone

                                      Instead of autistic people lacking empathy, our empathy may simply be expressed differently – both in its form, and its direction of travel.

                                      favicon

                                      Neurofabulous (www.neurofabulous.org.uk)

                                      coppercrush@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      coppercrush@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                                      coppercrush@beige.party
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @KatyElphinstone empathy is NTs is 'performative'. yes, absolutely.

                                      can anyone look around at the state of the world and think that neurotypicals are doing a good job of practicing empathy? or that they even have the right to define what empathy looks like, to the exclusion of others?

                                      my autistic friends are extraordinarily empathetic, it just doesn't look exactly like what we are told it's supposed to.

                                      kennethbousquet@mastodon.socialK 1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      0
                                      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                        So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                                        Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                                        And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                                        End of 🧵

                                        Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                                        autisticdoctorstruggles@mas.toA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        autisticdoctorstruggles@mas.toA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        autisticdoctorstruggles@mas.to
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @KatyElphinstone well said! I think the fact that allistics manage to pathologize a strong sense of justice says it all tbh. It's the same with honest autistic empathy.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                          So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                                          Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                                          And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                                          End of 🧵

                                          Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                                          astridpoot@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          astridpoot@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                          astridpoot@mastodon.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #20

                                          @KatyElphinstone spot on! i love love love your work, it resonates so well with me 😊 big thank you

                                          katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
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