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  3. Is empathy political?

Is empathy political?

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theoryofminddoubleempathyneurodivergentactuallyautisti
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  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

    Now I know that a lot of what gets called "empathy" isn't quite that simple.

    It can be about showing deference, or superiority. Or virtue signaling.

    Pleasing the right people, in the right ways, at the right times. Making yourself look like a good person.

    5/10

    #PowerDynamics #Hierarchy

    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
    katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
    katyelphinstone@mas.to
    wrote last edited by
    #6

    Now we're onto the topic of power dynamics 😁

    I've noticed autistic empathy can be rather unorthodox. 💟

    That could mean feeling compassion for animals, plants, trees, octopuses, sharks, avatars, our plushies… or even inanimate objects.

    🧸

    6/10

    katyelphinstone@mas.toK elexia@catcatnya.comE 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

      Now we're onto the topic of power dynamics 😁

      I've noticed autistic empathy can be rather unorthodox. 💟

      That could mean feeling compassion for animals, plants, trees, octopuses, sharks, avatars, our plushies… or even inanimate objects.

      🧸

      6/10

      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
      katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
      katyelphinstone@mas.to
      wrote last edited by
      #7

      So perhaps it's about direction of travel?

      Service and deference, in society, are meant to flow upwards.

      Yet we autistics, it seems, are more likely to feel for the excluded person, the animal or child… the spider in the bath, or the earthworm on a sunny road.

      7/10

      #Autistic

      katyelphinstone@mas.toK vervain@sunny.gardenV 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

        So perhaps it's about direction of travel?

        Service and deference, in society, are meant to flow upwards.

        Yet we autistics, it seems, are more likely to feel for the excluded person, the animal or child… the spider in the bath, or the earthworm on a sunny road.

        7/10

        #Autistic

        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
        katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
        katyelphinstone@mas.to
        wrote last edited by
        #8

        Empathy is usually believed to be a personal virtue, that some people have and others don’t.

        I don't think that's the whole story.

        It’s also shaped by power. By conditioning. By rewards and punishments. By who’s allowed to have needs, and who's trained to attend to them.

        8/10

        katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

          Empathy is usually believed to be a personal virtue, that some people have and others don’t.

          I don't think that's the whole story.

          It’s also shaped by power. By conditioning. By rewards and punishments. By who’s allowed to have needs, and who's trained to attend to them.

          8/10

          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
          katyelphinstone@mas.to
          wrote last edited by
          #9

          Autistic people often don't fit that mold.

          We get called rigid, naive, inappropriate. But I think it might be a lot more to do with ethical consistency.

          If we’re told honesty matters, we tell the truth. If we’re taught kindness matters, we try to direct it where it seems most needed.

          9/10

          katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
          1
          0
          • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

            Autistic people often don't fit that mold.

            We get called rigid, naive, inappropriate. But I think it might be a lot more to do with ethical consistency.

            If we’re told honesty matters, we tell the truth. If we’re taught kindness matters, we try to direct it where it seems most needed.

            9/10

            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
            katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
            katyelphinstone@mas.to
            wrote last edited by
            #10

            So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

            Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

            And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

            End of 🧵

            Full article, with refs, in the link below.

            katyelphinstone@mas.toK 401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.placeJ autisticdoctorstruggles@mas.toA astridpoot@mastodon.socialA 6 Replies Last reply
            0
            • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

              So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

              Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

              And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

              End of 🧵

              Full article, with refs, in the link below.

              katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
              katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
              katyelphinstone@mas.to
              wrote last edited by
              #11

              Link Preview Image
              Is empathy political? an article on autistic empathy, by K.J. Elphinstone

              Instead of autistic people lacking empathy, our empathy may simply be expressed differently – both in its form, and its direction of travel.

              favicon

              Neurofabulous (www.neurofabulous.org.uk)

              coppercrush@beige.partyC loki_laufeyiarson@mastodon.socialL 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                End of 🧵

                Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 This user is from outside of this forum
                401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 This user is from outside of this forum
                401matthall@mastodon.xyz
                wrote last edited by
                #12

                @KatyElphinstone

                I'm quite happy to be misaligned with _that_ social order. ❤

                katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • 401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 401matthall@mastodon.xyz

                  @KatyElphinstone

                  I'm quite happy to be misaligned with _that_ social order. ❤

                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                  katyelphinstone@mas.to
                  wrote last edited by
                  #13

                  @401matthall

                  Exactly 🥂

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                    Now we're onto the topic of power dynamics 😁

                    I've noticed autistic empathy can be rather unorthodox. 💟

                    That could mean feeling compassion for animals, plants, trees, octopuses, sharks, avatars, our plushies… or even inanimate objects.

                    🧸

                    6/10

                    elexia@catcatnya.comE This user is from outside of this forum
                    elexia@catcatnya.comE This user is from outside of this forum
                    elexia@catcatnya.com
                    wrote last edited by
                    #14

                    @KatyElphinstone yes, we feel strong compassion for non-humans and we feel for plushies too. it makes us uncomfortable when others treat plushies roughly and carelessly.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                      Is empathy political?
                      A thread on autistic empathy.

                      A still-quite-popular belief about autistic people is that we lack empathy.

                      I think this is faulty logic.
                      Here's why:

                      A thread 🧵

                      1/10

                      #ActuallyAutistic #Neurodivergent
                      #DoubleEmpathy #TheoryOfMind

                      rmblaber1956@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                      rmblaber1956@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                      rmblaber1956@mastodon.social
                      wrote last edited by
                      #15

                      @KatyElphinstone It is total nonsense - & insulting nonsense - to say that we lack #empathy. I well remember my reaction to hearing the story of two #Palestinian #parents in #Gaza whose infant son had been reduced to dismembered pieces in a plastic bag by #Israeli #bombing. I was reduced to helpless tears. Lack of empathy? I don't think so!

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                        So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                        Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                        And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                        End of 🧵

                        Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                        jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.placeJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.placeJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.place
                        wrote last edited by
                        #16

                        @KatyElphinstone If I where to generalize, going just by the people I know, it seems more to me like it's the 'allistics' who are empathy-impaired, and masking+projecting.

                        katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.placeJ jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.place

                          @KatyElphinstone If I where to generalize, going just by the people I know, it seems more to me like it's the 'allistics' who are empathy-impaired, and masking+projecting.

                          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                          katyelphinstone@mas.to
                          wrote last edited by
                          #17

                          @jordgubben

                          I honestly think it's our whole society, as it stands, that's empathy impaired 🤷‍♀️

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                            Link Preview Image
                            Is empathy political? an article on autistic empathy, by K.J. Elphinstone

                            Instead of autistic people lacking empathy, our empathy may simply be expressed differently – both in its form, and its direction of travel.

                            favicon

                            Neurofabulous (www.neurofabulous.org.uk)

                            coppercrush@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                            coppercrush@beige.partyC This user is from outside of this forum
                            coppercrush@beige.party
                            wrote last edited by
                            #18

                            @KatyElphinstone empathy is NTs is 'performative'. yes, absolutely.

                            can anyone look around at the state of the world and think that neurotypicals are doing a good job of practicing empathy? or that they even have the right to define what empathy looks like, to the exclusion of others?

                            my autistic friends are extraordinarily empathetic, it just doesn't look exactly like what we are told it's supposed to.

                            kennethbousquet@mastodon.socialK 1 Reply Last reply
                            1
                            0
                            • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                              So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                              Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                              And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                              End of 🧵

                              Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                              autisticdoctorstruggles@mas.toA This user is from outside of this forum
                              autisticdoctorstruggles@mas.toA This user is from outside of this forum
                              autisticdoctorstruggles@mas.to
                              wrote last edited by
                              #19

                              @KatyElphinstone well said! I think the fact that allistics manage to pathologize a strong sense of justice says it all tbh. It's the same with honest autistic empathy.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                                Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                                And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                                End of 🧵

                                Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                                astridpoot@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                astridpoot@mastodon.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                astridpoot@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #20

                                @KatyElphinstone spot on! i love love love your work, it resonates so well with me 😊 big thank you

                                katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • astridpoot@mastodon.socialA astridpoot@mastodon.social

                                  @KatyElphinstone spot on! i love love love your work, it resonates so well with me 😊 big thank you

                                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                  katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                  katyelphinstone@mas.to
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #21

                                  @astridpoot

                                  Ooh thank you 😊🫂

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                    So perhaps autistic people aren’t empathy-impaired at all.

                                    Just misaligned with a social order that expects empathy to be smooth, selective, strategic, performative, and status-aware.

                                    And maybe that's really what gets pathologized.

                                    End of 🧵

                                    Full article, with refs, in the link below.

                                    globcoco@mamot.frG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    globcoco@mamot.frG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    globcoco@mamot.fr
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #22

                                    @KatyElphinstone

                                    I have met some autistic people. And these ones were not emotionally impaired. So maybe it is a question of spectrum.

                                    Disclaimer: I am not versed in the subject so very ignorant. Just observing.

                                    katyelphinstone@mas.toK 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • katyelphinstone@mas.toK katyelphinstone@mas.to

                                      Is empathy political?
                                      A thread on autistic empathy.

                                      A still-quite-popular belief about autistic people is that we lack empathy.

                                      I think this is faulty logic.
                                      Here's why:

                                      A thread 🧵

                                      1/10

                                      #ActuallyAutistic #Neurodivergent
                                      #DoubleEmpathy #TheoryOfMind

                                      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
                                      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #23

                                      @KatyElphinstone

                                      One thing I’ve quite resent is how some certain billionaires I won’t mention Elon Musk or Alex Karp by name, clothe themselves in that label in order to, if I’m going to be honest, paper over the antisocial personality . That’s a lot different from a condition where one can get overloaded with sensory information.

                                      Empathy is that ability to comprehend the emotional state of another being. It is a critical faculty to navigate social context.

                                      1/n

                                      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai

                                        @KatyElphinstone

                                        One thing I’ve quite resent is how some certain billionaires I won’t mention Elon Musk or Alex Karp by name, clothe themselves in that label in order to, if I’m going to be honest, paper over the antisocial personality . That’s a lot different from a condition where one can get overloaded with sensory information.

                                        Empathy is that ability to comprehend the emotional state of another being. It is a critical faculty to navigate social context.

                                        1/n

                                        ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
                                        ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #24

                                        @KatyElphinstone

                                        The notion that it’s a virtue, cannot be entirely correct because we have neuron structures to make that perception possible.

                                        Empathy as a word that’s used within academic context is a very broad term so they contextualize what they actually are referring to.

                                        There’s a capacity to read and understand the emotional landscape of others, which are quite distinct from how an individual uses that understanding.

                                        2/n

                                        ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • globcoco@mamot.frG globcoco@mamot.fr

                                          @KatyElphinstone

                                          I have met some autistic people. And these ones were not emotionally impaired. So maybe it is a question of spectrum.

                                          Disclaimer: I am not versed in the subject so very ignorant. Just observing.

                                          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                          katyelphinstone@mas.toK This user is from outside of this forum
                                          katyelphinstone@mas.to
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #25

                                          @globcoco

                                          No, indeed, autistic people are not emotionally impaired 🥰

                                          globcoco@mamot.frG 1 Reply Last reply
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