Link via @HRCH - The Guardian reports on T&E’s research about rail booking problems https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/apr/21/almost-half-of-eus-busiest-flight-routes-are-hard-or-impossible-to-book-on-trains-report
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@bovine3dom It’s also getting access to apply reductions, and all ticket types. Reductions is usually not a question of access but rather retailers simply not supporting it, though. But there are still cases of both that are limited by access.
Is it really a goal to offer cheaper than the carriers themselves? We don’t have that goal, I don’t think that kind of undercutting necessarily would help.
@stefanlindbohm @bovine3dom @HRCH I’d be happy with THE SAME. That’d be just fine.
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@bovine3dom It’s also getting access to apply reductions, and all ticket types. Reductions is usually not a question of access but rather retailers simply not supporting it, though. But there are still cases of both that are limited by access.
Is it really a goal to offer cheaper than the carriers themselves? We don’t have that goal, I don’t think that kind of undercutting necessarily would help.
@stefanlindbohm i don't think it has to be _your_ goal but if T&E is making graphs of prices and whining that independents are more expensive then it seems to me like they think it should be possible
i know it is one of the main reasons people use independent resellers so much in the UK
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@bovine3dom It’s also getting access to apply reductions, and all ticket types. Reductions is usually not a question of access but rather retailers simply not supporting it, though. But there are still cases of both that are limited by access.
Is it really a goal to offer cheaper than the carriers themselves? We don’t have that goal, I don’t think that kind of undercutting necessarily would help.
@bovine3dom
My opinion and also our business case is that people don’t use independent portals because they don’t offer a good enough improvement of customer experience compared to the extra cost.I usually don’t see a point in throwing competitors under the bus, but Omio is extra egregious with their model of both applying a non-transparent markup of ticket prices as well as a non-refundable booking fee. Their higher prices are not due to the product sold being different.
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@stefanlindbohm i don't think it has to be _your_ goal but if T&E is making graphs of prices and whining that independents are more expensive then it seems to me like they think it should be possible
i know it is one of the main reasons people use independent resellers so much in the UK
@bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm @HRCH T&E wouldn’t begin to ask WHY that price differential is there. There are at least 3 related but different reasons.
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@demoographics @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm @HRCH @seatsixtyone.bsky.social Sure. But some things - like seating choice - likely isn’t available to third parties via operators’ APIs currently. But that obviously ought to be fixed.
@jon A lot more is available than what is supported by many portals, I’ll say that. There are still some cases where access is the problem, but usually not with the big operators.
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@stefanlindbohm @bovine3dom @HRCH I’d be happy with THE SAME. That’d be just fine.
@jon Exactly. That’s our stated goal.
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@jon Exactly. That’s our stated goal.
@stefanlindbohm i think it's easier to say that if you haven't seen how enormous the savings from split ticketing can be
we're talking about 75% reductions in price. yes the third party resellers have better interfaces but i think that's a minor reason for their success in the UK market
i don't think it's unique to the UK - you can get similar results in France if you price up tickets manually
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@stefanlindbohm i think it's easier to say that if you haven't seen how enormous the savings from split ticketing can be
we're talking about 75% reductions in price. yes the third party resellers have better interfaces but i think that's a minor reason for their success in the UK market
i don't think it's unique to the UK - you can get similar results in France if you price up tickets manually
@bovine3dom I totally get your point on the UK case. I’m just not super excited for exporting that solution as it seems more like a bug than a feature. If this should be regulated, I’d be way happier if the obligation was put on carriers to not create these conditions in the first place so all sales channels get the same lowest possible price without hacks.
I think there’s enough room for retailers to differentiate on designing for different use cases and coverage.
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@stefanlindbohm i think it's easier to say that if you haven't seen how enormous the savings from split ticketing can be
we're talking about 75% reductions in price. yes the third party resellers have better interfaces but i think that's a minor reason for their success in the UK market
i don't think it's unique to the UK - you can get similar results in France if you price up tickets manually
@bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm @jon @HRCH Could you really get that much discount in France on the exact same route?
(On a route that's directly bookable on SNCF Connect i.e. less than 2 changes)I know there are tricks with TER pricing, but I'd also say that saving 75% when the base price is 20€ isn't quite the same league as saving 75% when the base price is 200€.
Happy to see some example
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@bovine3dom
My opinion and also our business case is that people don’t use independent portals because they don’t offer a good enough improvement of customer experience compared to the extra cost.I usually don’t see a point in throwing competitors under the bus, but Omio is extra egregious with their model of both applying a non-transparent markup of ticket prices as well as a non-refundable booking fee. Their higher prices are not due to the product sold being different.
@stefanlindbohm @bovine3dom @jon @HRCH Yeah, in other words: does the value added justify the fee added? If you can offer a smooth route planner + end-to-end ticket booking in one payment (don't care if it counts as one "transaction" in legal verbiage) for a journey with 3+ operators that's already raising the bar.
And I think there'd be value in adding some flexibility on top (letting the user tweak or even build the schedule like Interrail app) but understand that's extra complexity for now.
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@bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm @jon @HRCH Could you really get that much discount in France on the exact same route?
(On a route that's directly bookable on SNCF Connect i.e. less than 2 changes)I know there are tricks with TER pricing, but I'd also say that saving 75% when the base price is 20€ isn't quite the same league as saving 75% when the base price is 200€.
Happy to see some example
@cycling_on_rails @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm @jon @HRCH
Onything that crosses the edge of a discount card applicability could benefit.Recently saw someone dealing with an inability to book something like Metz - Luxembourg at the correct price applying all the relevant discounts.
I have similarly stupid issues with SNCF where the cheapest option to Paris involves splitting at Forbach, to get the correct discount on Forbach-Paris.
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@bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm @jon @HRCH Could you really get that much discount in France on the exact same route?
(On a route that's directly bookable on SNCF Connect i.e. less than 2 changes)I know there are tricks with TER pricing, but I'd also say that saving 75% when the base price is 20€ isn't quite the same league as saving 75% when the base price is 200€.
Happy to see some example
@cycling_on_rails being cheeky with a poor-people discount card but flexible ticket for €60 non-split vs €6+€9 = €15 split
you can see similar reductions without discount cards by chaining together regional passes but that would involve more screenshots
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@bovine3dom I totally get your point on the UK case. I’m just not super excited for exporting that solution as it seems more like a bug than a feature. If this should be regulated, I’d be way happier if the obligation was put on carriers to not create these conditions in the first place so all sales channels get the same lowest possible price without hacks.
I think there’s enough room for retailers to differentiate on designing for different use cases and coverage.
@stefanlindbohm i think i disagree with you pretty strongly here
finding the optimum route/price combination is quite a hard computer science problem, i don't think it's a bug that the SNCF can't give you that, they're quite simply institutionally too bad at computers. probably because they can't pay talent enough or give them enough political space to experiment
they went on the record recently saying that they thought selling tickets was technically difficult!
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Link via @HRCH - The Guardian reports on T&E’s research about rail booking problems https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/apr/21/almost-half-of-eus-busiest-flight-routes-are-hard-or-impossible-to-book-on-trains-report
As an analysis of the problem this is ok. We need a bit more about what to *do* from here
@jon @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm So in summary:
- SNCF, Renfe and PKP are bad at cross-border ticketing,
- 3rd-party incumbents (sorry for the oxymoron) are focused on populous Western Europe countries around the Blue Banana,
- 3rd-party incumbents don't support discount cards for lack of access or lack of integration.
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@jon @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm So in summary:
- SNCF, Renfe and PKP are bad at cross-border ticketing,
- 3rd-party incumbents (sorry for the oxymoron) are focused on populous Western Europe countries around the Blue Banana,
- 3rd-party incumbents don't support discount cards for lack of access or lack of integration.@cycling_on_rails i love that brussels is the centre of the universe for these maps
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@jon @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm So in summary:
- SNCF, Renfe and PKP are bad at cross-border ticketing,
- 3rd-party incumbents (sorry for the oxymoron) are focused on populous Western Europe countries around the Blue Banana,
- 3rd-party incumbents don't support discount cards for lack of access or lack of integration.@jon @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm Aside that, interesting that there's such a gap between DB and ÖBB for the straightforward Munich-Vienna.
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@jon @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm Aside that, interesting that there's such a gap between DB and ÖBB for the straightforward Munich-Vienna.
@cycling_on_rails @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm Try it from MÁV - the gap will be even more!
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@jon @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm Aside that, interesting that there's such a gap between DB and ÖBB for the straightforward Munich-Vienna.
@cycling_on_rails i love when each operator gets their own allocation of seats and sells them separately
if we banned nominative tickets arbitrageurs could fix all this nonsense for us
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@cycling_on_rails @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm Try it from MÁV - the gap will be even more!
@jon do you really think T&E has heard of MÁV
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@jon @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm Aside that, interesting that there's such a gap between DB and ÖBB for the straightforward Munich-Vienna.
@jon @bovine3dom @stefanlindbohm As for Spain, I'm not sure there's more than correlation between prices, market share and incumbent status.
Trainline runs gigantic ads in the Barcelona waiting area. So maybe there's consumer choice here (e.g. better comfort and/or luggage space in AVE).
Plus market share is driven by offer (how many trains each operator runs). And price by offer as well (related to comfort level).
Lastly, are these figures even for Barcelona-Madrid, or Spain-wide?
