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  3. Wow some terrible reporting about Google's latest horrible ideas about how to distort information access in the name of "convenience" (or something):

Wow some terrible reporting about Google's latest horrible ideas about how to distort information access in the name of "convenience" (or something):

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  • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

    NO NO NO NO NO! Flashy polished looking webpages that no one has accountability for run absolutely counter to the common good when it comes to a health information ecosystem AND an informed public.

    (Also, "Antigravity"? Yeah, you want us to think this is very cool science fiction and/or magic. Not buying it.)

    >>

    mcahalane@mastodon.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
    mcahalane@mastodon.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
    mcahalane@mastodon.world
    wrote last edited by
    #67

    @emilymbender so we won't know what's AI slop and what's a real site?

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

      Wow some terrible reporting about Google's latest horrible ideas about how to distort information access in the name of "convenience" (or something):

      Link Preview Image
      Google Search as you know it is over | TechCrunch

      Google is transforming Search from a list of links into an AI-powered experience filled with conversational answers, autonomous agents, and interactive interfaces — a shift that could further reduce traffic to publishers across the web.

      favicon

      TechCrunch (techcrunch.com)

      A short thread
      🧵>>

      bms48@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
      bms48@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
      bms48@mastodon.social
      wrote last edited by
      #68

      @emilymbender My bigger worry is if they start ensloppifying scholar.google.com. Zotero Connector eats it right up. Semantic Scholar isn't a patch on it for grabbing bibliographic records and tracking references, I have seen noticeable distortion in its results. Their pipeline is somewhat ML driven but they do use LLM summaries. This is expected given the origins of the service. Provenance is everything.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

        Wow some terrible reporting about Google's latest horrible ideas about how to distort information access in the name of "convenience" (or something):

        Link Preview Image
        Google Search as you know it is over | TechCrunch

        Google is transforming Search from a list of links into an AI-powered experience filled with conversational answers, autonomous agents, and interactive interfaces — a shift that could further reduce traffic to publishers across the web.

        favicon

        TechCrunch (techcrunch.com)

        A short thread
        🧵>>

        syntaxseed@phpc.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
        syntaxseed@phpc.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
        syntaxseed@phpc.social
        wrote last edited by
        #69

        @emilymbender These companies desperately want to stop us from finding & enjoying each other's content. Walled gardens of social media & mega platforms weren't enough, now the search directories will be the ultimate walled garden.

        All built on stealing the work of everyone who's ever published anything online.

        Why would anyone create anything anymore? I already feel my own desire to blog is waning.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

          Here is where it really starts to show that this journalist is just lightly paraphrasing a press release. "Links will become an afterthought," will they? What is your evidence for that confident statement about the future?

          >>

          Link Preview Image
          fiar_light@beige.partyF This user is from outside of this forum
          fiar_light@beige.partyF This user is from outside of this forum
          fiar_light@beige.party
          wrote last edited by
          #70

          @emilymbender Silly, you're acting like there's any need for links. To do what? Check the veracity of the AI-generated wisdom and information being provided to you by the high priests of Google?? Heresy! Blasphemy!! How durst thee???

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

            More stenography here. Google starting shoving the "AI Overviews" into query results as an opt-out situation. That is, you have to take action to have them not pop up. I don't doubt they are *shown to* 2.5 billion monthly users, but that doesn't mean they are used by as many or desired by them.

            >>

            Link Preview Image
            lp0_on_fire@social.linux.pizzaL This user is from outside of this forum
            lp0_on_fire@social.linux.pizzaL This user is from outside of this forum
            lp0_on_fire@social.linux.pizza
            wrote last edited by
            #71

            @emilymbender, that was exactly the point at which I started configuring browsers to add “&udm=14” to all searches done via G💩💩gle.

            Most recent case? I noticed that Calibre does word lookup. It will happily do so via G💩💩gle; and, yes, the slop summary is shown.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

              For one final shudder: Pichai here seems to want to think this is helping the world somehow? Gah.

              >>

              Link Preview Image
              lp0_on_fire@social.linux.pizzaL This user is from outside of this forum
              lp0_on_fire@social.linux.pizzaL This user is from outside of this forum
              lp0_on_fire@social.linux.pizza
              wrote last edited by
              #72

              @emilymbender, he's mostly right. It definitely is helping the world… burn.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                But all the academic papers in the world showing why something is a bad idea won't stop companies from doing it, if it's profitable and/or fits into their quasi-religious beliefs that "AI" is the future, alas.

                So let's look at what Google is up to now, or at least says they are, via TechCrunch as stenographer:

                >>

                mrmoore@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                mrmoore@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                mrmoore@mstdn.social
                wrote last edited by
                #73

                @emilymbender Sometimes it feels like these people are trying to create a world from science fiction stories. For example, in Star Trek when they ask the computer something and it just gives them the answer. They don't understand that plenty of science fiction has no basis in reality and/or are terrible for how our brains actually work (like you've pointed out).

                That or they are just greedy bastards that are looking to exploit anyone and everyone for a profit.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                  More stenography here. Google starting shoving the "AI Overviews" into query results as an opt-out situation. That is, you have to take action to have them not pop up. I don't doubt they are *shown to* 2.5 billion monthly users, but that doesn't mean they are used by as many or desired by them.

                  >>

                  Link Preview Image
                  mspcommentary@mastodon.onlineM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mspcommentary@mastodon.onlineM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mspcommentary@mastodon.online
                  wrote last edited by
                  #74

                  @emilymbender wait! You can opt out?!

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                    NO NO NO NO NO! Flashy polished looking webpages that no one has accountability for run absolutely counter to the common good when it comes to a health information ecosystem AND an informed public.

                    (Also, "Antigravity"? Yeah, you want us to think this is very cool science fiction and/or magic. Not buying it.)

                    >>

                    whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                    whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                    whitequark@social.treehouse.systems
                    wrote last edited by
                    #75

                    @emilymbender it's an XKCD reference isn't it?

                    jackeric@beige.partyJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • damonwakes@mastodon.sdf.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
                      damonwakes@mastodon.sdf.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
                      damonwakes@mastodon.sdf.org
                      wrote last edited by
                      #76

                      @sleepfreeparent @mrmoore @emilymbender Also they can show their ads on their platform without those pesky users nipping off to see the source of the information (and possibly supporting it in any way).

                      mrmoore@mstdn.socialM 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                        How infantilizing --- you thought you were looking to find something that someone else wrote on the web. But woah! Now you've been "dropped into" an "interactive experience". Yeah, Google can just fuck right off with that.

                        >>

                        damonwakes@mastodon.sdf.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
                        damonwakes@mastodon.sdf.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
                        damonwakes@mastodon.sdf.org
                        wrote last edited by
                        #77

                        @emilymbender Oh, goodie. They've invented a guy who barges between you and the library shelves and proceeds to give you his vague recollection of what some of the books say. Sort of. Maybe. Unless he decides you were actually looking for something else.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW whitequark@social.treehouse.systems

                          @emilymbender it's an XKCD reference isn't it?

                          jackeric@beige.partyJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          jackeric@beige.partyJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          jackeric@beige.party
                          wrote last edited by
                          #78

                          @whitequark @emilymbender surely. `import antigravity` in python, about 20+ years ago

                          whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • jackeric@beige.partyJ jackeric@beige.party

                            @whitequark @emilymbender surely. `import antigravity` in python, about 20+ years ago

                            whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                            whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW This user is from outside of this forum
                            whitequark@social.treehouse.systems
                            wrote last edited by
                            #79

                            @jackeric @emilymbender doesn't make it less cringe, of course

                            jackeric@beige.partyJ 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • whitequark@social.treehouse.systemsW whitequark@social.treehouse.systems

                              @jackeric @emilymbender doesn't make it less cringe, of course

                              jackeric@beige.partyJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              jackeric@beige.partyJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              jackeric@beige.party
                              wrote last edited by
                              #80

                              @whitequark @emilymbender indeed

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                                Wow some terrible reporting about Google's latest horrible ideas about how to distort information access in the name of "convenience" (or something):

                                Link Preview Image
                                Google Search as you know it is over | TechCrunch

                                Google is transforming Search from a list of links into an AI-powered experience filled with conversational answers, autonomous agents, and interactive interfaces — a shift that could further reduce traffic to publishers across the web.

                                favicon

                                TechCrunch (techcrunch.com)

                                A short thread
                                🧵>>

                                taghunt@infosec.exchangeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                taghunt@infosec.exchangeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                taghunt@infosec.exchange
                                wrote last edited by
                                #81

                                @emilymbender
                                Good thing they block adblockers then aye?

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • damonwakes@mastodon.sdf.orgD damonwakes@mastodon.sdf.org

                                  @sleepfreeparent @mrmoore @emilymbender Also they can show their ads on their platform without those pesky users nipping off to see the source of the information (and possibly supporting it in any way).

                                  mrmoore@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mrmoore@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mrmoore@mstdn.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #82

                                  @DamonWakes @sleepfreeparent @emilymbender It's amazing how it's changed from want to get users out of search to websites, as quickly as possible. Now, it's the opposite. Keep users in search as long as possible and don't allow them escape to the websites.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • tomtom@pouet.chapril.orgT tomtom@pouet.chapril.org

                                    @ShadSterling @romli @hamishb @emilymbender use duckduckgo and you have simple ai opt out .

                                    But anyway all this suppose there will be something left to search for on the web. Nowadays most often than not the first 10 links returned are AI generated web site slop.
                                    Given that this slop is now used to generate further down the drain AI sites, the untrustworthy garbage'll soon supersede 100-1 trustworthy sources.

                                    Maybe we'll have to come back to human indexed content of a curated list of sites.

                                    morqendi@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                                    morqendi@mstdn.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                                    morqendi@mstdn.social
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #83

                                    @tomtom @ShadSterling @romli @hamishb @emilymbender

                                    Even easier:

                                    Link Preview Image
                                    DuckDuckGo - Protection. Privacy. Peace of mind.

                                    The Internet privacy company that empowers you to seamlessly take control of your personal information online, without any tradeoffs.

                                    favicon

                                    DuckDuckGo (noai.duckduckgo.com)

                                    Enjoy! 😊

                                    #NoAI

                                    S 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • hipsterelectron@circumstances.runH hipsterelectron@circumstances.run

                                      @emilymbender i'm fucking weepi ng

                                      Information-gathering agents are an evolution of Google

                                      i have never observed google demonstrate any behavior that struck me as evidence of them gathering any form of information

                                      Links will become an afterthought

                                      that reminds me how they own the w3c and use it to ensure no one who has ever created a webpage will ever be able to show it to anyone without exposing them to the most openly broken cryptography i've ever seem

                                      There’s little time left for publishers to adapt.

                                      openly gloating

                                      which will eventually be free

                                      that's right. we will all be free. that's a cryptographic guarantee

                                      thethunderwolf@tech.lgbtT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      thethunderwolf@tech.lgbtT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      thethunderwolf@tech.lgbt
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #84

                                      @hipsterelectron @emilymbender

                                      i have never observed google demonstrate any behavior that struck me as evidence of them gathering any form of information

                                      except for them unethically gathering lots of information about you?

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • morqendi@mstdn.socialM morqendi@mstdn.social

                                        @tomtom @ShadSterling @romli @hamishb @emilymbender

                                        Even easier:

                                        Link Preview Image
                                        DuckDuckGo - Protection. Privacy. Peace of mind.

                                        The Internet privacy company that empowers you to seamlessly take control of your personal information online, without any tradeoffs.

                                        favicon

                                        DuckDuckGo (noai.duckduckgo.com)

                                        Enjoy! 😊

                                        #NoAI

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                                        shadsterling@mastodon.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #85

                                        @morqendi @tomtom @romli @hamishb @emilymbender the only time I use Google is when DDG results are useless so I prepend with “g! ” to try Google, and even the noai version doesn’t append “ -ai” so I still get the AI overview and an actual setting would still help.

                                        I’ll try to remember to try prepending with “g! -ai “, but that’s not an acceptable way for them to interpret “opt out”

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • emilymbender@dair-community.socialE emilymbender@dair-community.social

                                          Not satisfied to cut people off from the important sense-making of looking at information in its context and finding and navigating different perspectives (what "AI overviews" do), Google also wants to tell you what to search for:

                                          >>

                                          Link Preview Image
                                          wizardofdocs@wandering.shopW This user is from outside of this forum
                                          wizardofdocs@wandering.shopW This user is from outside of this forum
                                          wizardofdocs@wandering.shop
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #86

                                          @emilymbender you know, I was just thinking

                                          Google gave up on "don't be evil" at least a decade ago

                                          while I worked there about five years ago, they gave up on "respect the user, respect the opportunity, respect each other"

                                          now they seem to have given up on "organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful"

                                          I hate that my livelihood is still tied to them.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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