the exhausting alienation from both sides of the trans debate from uk academia and media being "but think how this will affect cis women"
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every hypothetical situation to argue against is based around a cis woman who gets challenged for being trans in a toilet.
guess who lives that every fucking day? trans women.
guess which of those two has the backing of the law, public opinion and isnt ultimately risking getting put on the sex register?
@siege They really do feel the need to make our rights about themselves…
I do get it. I think “you’re only hurting yourself” is a pretty good reply to TERFs being TERFy. They’re afraid and they think they’re protecting something but really they’re just being transphobic and making the world worse. Pointing out how the world is now worse for THEM is a good counter.
But also, the world isn’t going to be made better by people realizing that their bigotry might backfire. It gets made better by understanding that we need to protect the vulnerable simply because they’re vulnerable, even if it gains us nothing.
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every hypothetical situation to argue against is based around a cis woman who gets challenged for being trans in a toilet.
guess who lives that every fucking day? trans women.
guess which of those two has the backing of the law, public opinion and isnt ultimately risking getting put on the sex register?
cis women were being attacked in toilets for being trans ALREADY.
the uk bathroom bill hasnt affected that legally.
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the exhausting alienation from both sides of the trans debate from uk academia and media being "but think how this will affect cis women"
I make arguments like that because I want to emphasize why trans rights are a feminist issue
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@unlofl @victoria no, the bathroom ban bans trans men from male toilets and female toilets (if anyone in there objects to their masculinity)
but often people dont know that and do the same trite "haha but they're going to force trans men into the womens toilet HHAHAHA that will give them quite the shock wont it! HAHA"
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@victoria We might need to change the urinals/toilets ratio in very large mens rooms? Yeah, thats quite a stretch
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cis women were being attacked in toilets for being trans ALREADY.
the uk bathroom bill hasnt affected that legally.
@siege I'm genuinely surprised nobody in the States has ever taken this as a tact to argue against these sort of bills. "By enacting this you are giving them the right to make everybody verify their gender - that means you too, cis white lady. Prepare to drop trow at any man's request."
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@siege They really do feel the need to make our rights about themselves…
I do get it. I think “you’re only hurting yourself” is a pretty good reply to TERFs being TERFy. They’re afraid and they think they’re protecting something but really they’re just being transphobic and making the world worse. Pointing out how the world is now worse for THEM is a good counter.
But also, the world isn’t going to be made better by people realizing that their bigotry might backfire. It gets made better by understanding that we need to protect the vulnerable simply because they’re vulnerable, even if it gains us nothing.
@faithisleaping
Yeah, people who would have their minds changed by "this will hurt cis folks too" are just going to double down on trying to modify it to only hurt trans people, even if that is impossible
@siege -
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@unlofl @victoria no, the bathroom ban bans trans men from male toilets and female toilets (if anyone in there objects to their masculinity)
but often people dont know that and do the same trite "haha but they're going to force trans men into the womens toilet HHAHAHA that will give them quite the shock wont it! HAHA"
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@siege I'm genuinely surprised nobody in the States has ever taken this as a tact to argue against these sort of bills. "By enacting this you are giving them the right to make everybody verify their gender - that means you too, cis white lady. Prepare to drop trow at any man's request."
@thevhswizard @siege that’s a fact American trans people have also been pointing out for years, but you’ve self proven about how much anyone (and by anyone I mean cis people) listen to us
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@thevhswizard @siege that’s a fact American trans people have also been pointing out for years, but you’ve self proven about how much anyone (and by anyone I mean cis people) listen to us
️@Callanbellwether @thevhswizard @siege
I've had cis people respond to these conversations with the gamut of "no it won't," "that doesn't make sense," "that can't happen," "that'd be illegal," "well you pass so it won't matter," "nobody actually cares," and so much more.
Every excuse to brush off the facts of what we're dealing with, rather than actually face the realities of it all.
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the exhausting alienation from both sides of the trans debate from uk academia and media being "but think how this will affect cis women"
It hasn't affected cis women for the past century, and so all things being equal the future would be the same.
But then manufactured moral panics are never logical
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@unlofl @victoria no, the bathroom ban bans trans men from male toilets and female toilets (if anyone in there objects to their masculinity)
but often people dont know that and do the same trite "haha but they're going to force trans men into the womens toilet HHAHAHA that will give them quite the shock wont it! HAHA"
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@Callanbellwether @thevhswizard @siege
I've had cis people respond to these conversations with the gamut of "no it won't," "that doesn't make sense," "that can't happen," "that'd be illegal," "well you pass so it won't matter," "nobody actually cares," and so much more.
Every excuse to brush off the facts of what we're dealing with, rather than actually face the realities of it all.
@CordiallyChloe @thevhswizard @siege YUP exactly
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@Callanbellwether @CordiallyChloe @thevhswizard also "this is a middle class issue! stop distracting from class struggle"
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cis women were being attacked in toilets for being trans ALREADY.
the uk bathroom bill hasnt affected that legally.
@siege@masto.hackers.town this already happened here (Brazil) at a gym. People are getting crazy =/
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@Callanbellwether @CordiallyChloe @thevhswizard also "this is a middle class issue! stop distracting from class struggle"
@siege @CordiallyChloe @thevhswizard Ughhhh yeah ‘fellas is it bourgeois to take medicine and be free of the urinary leash?’ APPARENTLY. Also the fucking audacity when we are very much a class struggling w no goddamn money and a genocidal apparatus
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@Callanbellwether @thevhswizard @siege
I've had cis people respond to these conversations with the gamut of "no it won't," "that doesn't make sense," "that can't happen," "that'd be illegal," "well you pass so it won't matter," "nobody actually cares," and so much more.
Every excuse to brush off the facts of what we're dealing with, rather than actually face the realities of it all.
@CordiallyChloe @Callanbellwether @thevhswizard @siege I mean, we’ve even had higher profile Democrat politicians bring this kind of stuff up when it came to “sex verification” for children’s sports, since it’s basically creating a legally enforced opportunity for the SA of children. They even used it to campaign against these bills…and it hasn’t succeeded in the long run.
I think that’s one of the problems with this flavor of “ally” rhetoric too - it doesn’t stop this stuff any better really. There is one approach to it that could stand up for both trans and GNC cis people: bring up “hey, why are we giving police the power to tell everyone how to dress or express themselves? Why the fuck is it the government’s business what a person does in private in a restroom?”
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@siege @CordiallyChloe @thevhswizard Ughhhh yeah ‘fellas is it bourgeois to take medicine and be free of the urinary leash?’ APPARENTLY. Also the fucking audacity when we are very much a class struggling w no goddamn money and a genocidal apparatus
@Callanbellwether @siege @CordiallyChloe @thevhswizard wait, are there people actually saying access to public restrooms is bourgeois issue?!
Here in SoCal, it’s a class issue alright - the poor and unhoused are restricted from having access to public restrooms and are criminalized for peeing in public. Like, it’s about standing up for poor, working class, and unhoused trans people to fight for safe bathroom access for everyone. Blargh!
