Can the AI haters give it a rest already?
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@JustinMac84 Scream at the companies, not the users. The users likely already know, and the ones that don't agree with you are probably using it in those concerning ways to begin with. I cannot do anything about the damage AI is doing to the planet. OpenAI can. Yell at them, not me.
@quanin I return to my original point, as a disabled person, I'm not against the benefits AI *might* bring. I am against the negatives. The more users that are alive to those negatives and refuse to use products saddled with those negatives or push back in other ways, the better the final situation might be.
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@quanin If there is a demand, the tech will continue to churn it out. If people accept what they're being offered, use the unreliable tech that hampers the ability to think, willingly sacrifice their privacy at an exponentially increasing rate, that will validate the investment. If users refuse to use it or limit their use, if users that want AI to be a good thing but don't want the trade-offs increase the push-back, maybe we'll get somewhere.
@JustinMac84 I have unfortunate news for you. Users, in most cases, aren't the ones creating demand for these things. Companies and governments are. You think I'd even have a GPT account if I didn't suspect employers would make knowledge of how to manipulate AI a hard requirement in two years?
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@JustinMac84 I have unfortunate news for you. Users, in most cases, aren't the ones creating demand for these things. Companies and governments are. You think I'd even have a GPT account if I didn't suspect employers would make knowledge of how to manipulate AI a hard requirement in two years?
@quanin I don't know how to say this without it sounding like a personal attack, so I hope you will believe that it is not meant as one, but that is complying in advance. You assume that something will happen, therefore pave the way for it, where insufficient uptake might make the eventuality you foresee a non-event. In my view, if making tech compulsary is the only way to get it adopted, it's obviously not very good tech. Good tech should sell itself.
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@quanin I return to my original point, as a disabled person, I'm not against the benefits AI *might* bring. I am against the negatives. The more users that are alive to those negatives and refuse to use products saddled with those negatives or push back in other ways, the better the final situation might be.
@JustinMac84 And I return to the original point of the thread. If we refused to use every device that was to our benefit because we had concerns, we'd get absolutely nowhere. People have concerns about video games. Should we stop using those, or should we address and/or disprove those concerns? People have concerns about microwaves. Should we stop using those? People have concerns about wifi. Should we stop using that? The list, she goes on.
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@quanin Yes, my client gives the originating post of this conversation as "Can the AI haters give it a rest already." I take that to be a request for people to stop expressing negative things about AI. I think, given the magnitude of those concerns, it is unreasonable to expect people to "give it a rest". So, to have you tagged first in the reply was my mistake, for which I apologies, but I was expanding on what you said to say that it's not AI as a concept I hate.
@JustinMac84 @quanin I can't even pull the original post, so thank you for providing context. And now I will go back to being a fly on the wall.
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@JustinMac84 And I return to the original point of the thread. If we refused to use every device that was to our benefit because we had concerns, we'd get absolutely nowhere. People have concerns about video games. Should we stop using those, or should we address and/or disprove those concerns? People have concerns about microwaves. Should we stop using those? People have concerns about wifi. Should we stop using that? The list, she goes on.
@quanin I would argue that those concerns don't outweigh the benefits in the other examples you mentioned. If a Microsoft study, a study by the very company forcing us to accept AI, shows that AI produces cognitive decline, isn't that a whole new level of alarming? I return to my point: show me the benefit that outweighs the very real, tangible proven negatives I have outlined. If there are massive benefits I'm missing, happy to adjust my position. Until then...
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@quanin I would argue that those concerns don't outweigh the benefits in the other examples you mentioned. If a Microsoft study, a study by the very company forcing us to accept AI, shows that AI produces cognitive decline, isn't that a whole new level of alarming? I return to my point: show me the benefit that outweighs the very real, tangible proven negatives I have outlined. If there are massive benefits I'm missing, happy to adjust my position. Until then...
@quanin Citation for previously mentioned study. https://www.404media.co/microsoft-study-finds-ai-makes-human-cognition-atrophied-and-unprepared-3/
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@quanin I would argue that those concerns don't outweigh the benefits in the other examples you mentioned. If a Microsoft study, a study by the very company forcing us to accept AI, shows that AI produces cognitive decline, isn't that a whole new level of alarming? I return to my point: show me the benefit that outweighs the very real, tangible proven negatives I have outlined. If there are massive benefits I'm missing, happy to adjust my position. Until then...
@JustinMac84 The diference here is I'm not trying to change your mind. You're trying to change mine. And I'm not saying there aren't concerns. I'm saying every single conversation about and around AI does not need to circle back to those concerns. Yes, we know. You told us yesterday. There comes a point when you're just being a broken record.
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@JustinMac84 @quanin I can't even pull the original post, so thank you for providing context. And now I will go back to being a fly on the wall.
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@JustinMac84 @quanin If the post comes from a protected account, it can't be reposted. If they were referencing another post, you'd have to repost the original for me to see it.
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@JustinMac84 The diference here is I'm not trying to change your mind. You're trying to change mine. And I'm not saying there aren't concerns. I'm saying every single conversation about and around AI does not need to circle back to those concerns. Yes, we know. You told us yesterday. There comes a point when you're just being a broken record.
@quanin I take that point and I certainly don't want to sound like a broken record, but what is the alternative? I would be happy to see one. We are slightly side-tracked by the fact that I wasn't actually trying to change your mind by my OP, but to explain to the poster that originated this thread why we feel we can't "give it a rest" and that I think expecting such is unreasonable.
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@quanin I take that point and I certainly don't want to sound like a broken record, but what is the alternative? I would be happy to see one. We are slightly side-tracked by the fact that I wasn't actually trying to change your mind by my OP, but to explain to the poster that originated this thread why we feel we can't "give it a rest" and that I think expecting such is unreasonable.
@quanin psychological studies show that minority influence, to be successful, must be consistent, i.e. it must keep pushing its message. It must also be flexible, hence my assertion that, were I shown sizable benefits that stack against the negatives I've advanced, I would be happy to moderate my position. What is the alternative therefore, to keep trying to raise awareness of the harm AI can and is doing? Those that don't care won't listen, but those that do, might.
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@quanin I take that point and I certainly don't want to sound like a broken record, but what is the alternative? I would be happy to see one. We are slightly side-tracked by the fact that I wasn't actually trying to change your mind by my OP, but to explain to the poster that originated this thread why we feel we can't "give it a rest" and that I think expecting such is unreasonable.
@JustinMac84 The alternative is, as I keep telling you, not bringing this up in every single conversation about AI. Yes, those studies exist. And yes, in 6 months we'll see studies that say the opposite. It's the social media mental health debate all over again. You have made what you believe clear. But here's the thing. It doesn't matter whether I agree with what you believe or not, because nothing that was being discussed in the thread you replied to was arguing for or against what you believe. It became about what you believe when you entered the thread.
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@JustinMac84 The alternative is, as I keep telling you, not bringing this up in every single conversation about AI. Yes, those studies exist. And yes, in 6 months we'll see studies that say the opposite. It's the social media mental health debate all over again. You have made what you believe clear. But here's the thing. It doesn't matter whether I agree with what you believe or not, because nothing that was being discussed in the thread you replied to was arguing for or against what you believe. It became about what you believe when you entered the thread.
@quanin I'm not seeing that. The OP told AI haters to give it a rest because of minor benefits disabled people experience. I think we can both agree that I come under what the OP would class as an "AI hater". Therefore the conversation was absolutely relevant to me and I felt it important to point out that its not personal against the users, nor is it a blanket hate, from me anyway, of all things AI, mearly the current implementation thereof.
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@quanin I'm not seeing that. The OP told AI haters to give it a rest because of minor benefits disabled people experience. I think we can both agree that I come under what the OP would class as an "AI hater". Therefore the conversation was absolutely relevant to me and I felt it important to point out that its not personal against the users, nor is it a blanket hate, from me anyway, of all things AI, mearly the current implementation thereof.
@JustinMac84 Right now, you sound like an AI hater. Particularly because you literally came into a thread where the AI haters were being asked to knock it off because this literally comes up in every conversation, and you're basically saying no. For the record, because you apparently won't let this go unless I explicitly say it, I agree with you. And in general AI is making most people lazier, even if you remove all of those other concerns. We still don't need to hear about it in every single AI conversation. That's the broken record.
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@quanin I'm not seeing that. The OP told AI haters to give it a rest because of minor benefits disabled people experience. I think we can both agree that I come under what the OP would class as an "AI hater". Therefore the conversation was absolutely relevant to me and I felt it important to point out that its not personal against the users, nor is it a blanket hate, from me anyway, of all things AI, mearly the current implementation thereof.
@quanin It's interesting that you mention the social media debate because the same companies pushing AI so hard are currently on trial because of their implementation of social media, i.e. that they make it addictive, cognitively harmful, and have been aware of the mental health risks it poses. Australia's recently banned it for children, the UK wants to do likewise. I think social media and AI fears contextualise and relate to one another.
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@JustinMac84 Right now, you sound like an AI hater. Particularly because you literally came into a thread where the AI haters were being asked to knock it off because this literally comes up in every conversation, and you're basically saying no. For the record, because you apparently won't let this go unless I explicitly say it, I agree with you. And in general AI is making most people lazier, even if you remove all of those other concerns. We still don't need to hear about it in every single AI conversation. That's the broken record.
@quanin I'm sorry it comes off that way. I came into the thread with the specific hope, along with you, of moderating the OP's position. You said it wasn't AI people were against, but the idea it should be used for everything and that it shouldn't replace people. I agreed with you on all the points of that post and wanted to add that it isn't AI as a concept I dislike, but its current implementation.
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@quanin It's interesting that you mention the social media debate because the same companies pushing AI so hard are currently on trial because of their implementation of social media, i.e. that they make it addictive, cognitively harmful, and have been aware of the mental health risks it poses. Australia's recently banned it for children, the UK wants to do likewise. I think social media and AI fears contextualise and relate to one another.
@JustinMac84 Australia's social media ban for children has nothing to do with actually protecting the children, and neither does the UK's. What age verification laws will actually do, and there are actual studies that also prove this, is grant Meta and companies like that a virtual monopoly over the social media space, preventing smaller startups from competing with them. It's the same reason Meta's also completely onboard with repealing section 230 in the US. It's not about protecting people. It's about protecting Meta. And I'm on purpose ignoring the fact that age verification as it currently exists is also a privacy violation waiting to happen.
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@quanin I'm sorry it comes off that way. I came into the thread with the specific hope, along with you, of moderating the OP's position. You said it wasn't AI people were against, but the idea it should be used for everything and that it shouldn't replace people. I agreed with you on all the points of that post and wanted to add that it isn't AI as a concept I dislike, but its current implementation.
@quanin I hoped to show her that it isn't the benefits she derives I hate, nor her for using them, but the costs attached to those benefits. I can derive those self same benefits, but don't think the cost is worth it. Do I hate the costs? Absolutely! Hate and oppose them! We need to address those costs with the utmost urgency. If that makes me an AI hater, so be it.
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@JustinMac84 Australia's social media ban for children has nothing to do with actually protecting the children, and neither does the UK's. What age verification laws will actually do, and there are actual studies that also prove this, is grant Meta and companies like that a virtual monopoly over the social media space, preventing smaller startups from competing with them. It's the same reason Meta's also completely onboard with repealing section 230 in the US. It's not about protecting people. It's about protecting Meta. And I'm on purpose ignoring the fact that age verification as it currently exists is also a privacy violation waiting to happen.
@quanin Agreed on all points. I believe social media can harm children, but oppose the means being advanced to do it.
I wish I hadn't untagged the OP though as it turns out I did thread appropriately.