Can the AI haters give it a rest already?
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@quanin It is only because of massive pushback that Mosilla has done its users the courtesy of allowing its user-base to opt out of AI features...for now. I'm not sure what kind of opposition you would, therefore, be okay with. The only alternative I can see would be, "Hey, remember those worries we had about all the negative effects of AI that we stopped talking about because people asked us to? We're just back to point out that
@quanin they're still here and a lot worse. Do you fancy putting the brakes on a bit or should we go back to being quiet?"
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@quanin they're still here and a lot worse. Do you fancy putting the brakes on a bit or should we go back to being quiet?"
@JustinMac84 Scream at the companies, not the users. The users likely already know, and the ones that don't agree with you are probably using it in those concerning ways to begin with. I cannot do anything about the damage AI is doing to the planet. OpenAI can. Yell at them, not me.
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@JustinMac84 Instead, my house is not on fire and you're trying to argue it is. Meta's been violating your privacy since before AI existed, and will continue violating your privacy long after AI in its current form is dead. AI is another road to the same destination, not a new journey.
@quanin It's a much faster road and I object to the destination. My argument isn't just on one front, either against privacy violation or against AI. See the costs of proposed data centres being pushed onto local residents, the erosion of copyright, the saturation of creative markets, the effect on empathy and cognitive ability, particularly in the young, the under-representation of gender, race and disability by AI models.
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@JustinMac84 Instead, my house is not on fire and you're trying to argue it is. Meta's been violating your privacy since before AI existed, and will continue violating your privacy long after AI in its current form is dead. AI is another road to the same destination, not a new journey.
@quanin Best way to "shut us up and get us to give it a rest" is with a sentence that starts "AI is worth sacrificing our privacy, a greater concentration of wealth, making residents pay higher power and water costs, increasing climate damage, risking cognitive ability and undermining livelihoods because..."
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@JustinMac84 Scream at the companies, not the users. The users likely already know, and the ones that don't agree with you are probably using it in those concerning ways to begin with. I cannot do anything about the damage AI is doing to the planet. OpenAI can. Yell at them, not me.
@quanin If there is a demand, the tech will continue to churn it out. If people accept what they're being offered, use the unreliable tech that hampers the ability to think, willingly sacrifice their privacy at an exponentially increasing rate, that will validate the investment. If users refuse to use it or limit their use, if users that want AI to be a good thing but don't want the trade-offs increase the push-back, maybe we'll get somewhere.
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@JustinMac84 Scream at the companies, not the users. The users likely already know, and the ones that don't agree with you are probably using it in those concerning ways to begin with. I cannot do anything about the damage AI is doing to the planet. OpenAI can. Yell at them, not me.
@quanin I return to my original point, as a disabled person, I'm not against the benefits AI *might* bring. I am against the negatives. The more users that are alive to those negatives and refuse to use products saddled with those negatives or push back in other ways, the better the final situation might be.
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@quanin If there is a demand, the tech will continue to churn it out. If people accept what they're being offered, use the unreliable tech that hampers the ability to think, willingly sacrifice their privacy at an exponentially increasing rate, that will validate the investment. If users refuse to use it or limit their use, if users that want AI to be a good thing but don't want the trade-offs increase the push-back, maybe we'll get somewhere.
@JustinMac84 I have unfortunate news for you. Users, in most cases, aren't the ones creating demand for these things. Companies and governments are. You think I'd even have a GPT account if I didn't suspect employers would make knowledge of how to manipulate AI a hard requirement in two years?
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@JustinMac84 I have unfortunate news for you. Users, in most cases, aren't the ones creating demand for these things. Companies and governments are. You think I'd even have a GPT account if I didn't suspect employers would make knowledge of how to manipulate AI a hard requirement in two years?
@quanin I don't know how to say this without it sounding like a personal attack, so I hope you will believe that it is not meant as one, but that is complying in advance. You assume that something will happen, therefore pave the way for it, where insufficient uptake might make the eventuality you foresee a non-event. In my view, if making tech compulsary is the only way to get it adopted, it's obviously not very good tech. Good tech should sell itself.
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@quanin I return to my original point, as a disabled person, I'm not against the benefits AI *might* bring. I am against the negatives. The more users that are alive to those negatives and refuse to use products saddled with those negatives or push back in other ways, the better the final situation might be.
@JustinMac84 And I return to the original point of the thread. If we refused to use every device that was to our benefit because we had concerns, we'd get absolutely nowhere. People have concerns about video games. Should we stop using those, or should we address and/or disprove those concerns? People have concerns about microwaves. Should we stop using those? People have concerns about wifi. Should we stop using that? The list, she goes on.
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@quanin Yes, my client gives the originating post of this conversation as "Can the AI haters give it a rest already." I take that to be a request for people to stop expressing negative things about AI. I think, given the magnitude of those concerns, it is unreasonable to expect people to "give it a rest". So, to have you tagged first in the reply was my mistake, for which I apologies, but I was expanding on what you said to say that it's not AI as a concept I hate.
@JustinMac84 @quanin I can't even pull the original post, so thank you for providing context. And now I will go back to being a fly on the wall.
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@JustinMac84 And I return to the original point of the thread. If we refused to use every device that was to our benefit because we had concerns, we'd get absolutely nowhere. People have concerns about video games. Should we stop using those, or should we address and/or disprove those concerns? People have concerns about microwaves. Should we stop using those? People have concerns about wifi. Should we stop using that? The list, she goes on.
@quanin I would argue that those concerns don't outweigh the benefits in the other examples you mentioned. If a Microsoft study, a study by the very company forcing us to accept AI, shows that AI produces cognitive decline, isn't that a whole new level of alarming? I return to my point: show me the benefit that outweighs the very real, tangible proven negatives I have outlined. If there are massive benefits I'm missing, happy to adjust my position. Until then...
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@quanin I would argue that those concerns don't outweigh the benefits in the other examples you mentioned. If a Microsoft study, a study by the very company forcing us to accept AI, shows that AI produces cognitive decline, isn't that a whole new level of alarming? I return to my point: show me the benefit that outweighs the very real, tangible proven negatives I have outlined. If there are massive benefits I'm missing, happy to adjust my position. Until then...
@quanin Citation for previously mentioned study. https://www.404media.co/microsoft-study-finds-ai-makes-human-cognition-atrophied-and-unprepared-3/
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@quanin I would argue that those concerns don't outweigh the benefits in the other examples you mentioned. If a Microsoft study, a study by the very company forcing us to accept AI, shows that AI produces cognitive decline, isn't that a whole new level of alarming? I return to my point: show me the benefit that outweighs the very real, tangible proven negatives I have outlined. If there are massive benefits I'm missing, happy to adjust my position. Until then...
@JustinMac84 The diference here is I'm not trying to change your mind. You're trying to change mine. And I'm not saying there aren't concerns. I'm saying every single conversation about and around AI does not need to circle back to those concerns. Yes, we know. You told us yesterday. There comes a point when you're just being a broken record.
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@JustinMac84 @quanin I can't even pull the original post, so thank you for providing context. And now I will go back to being a fly on the wall.
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@JustinMac84 @quanin If the post comes from a protected account, it can't be reposted. If they were referencing another post, you'd have to repost the original for me to see it.
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@JustinMac84 The diference here is I'm not trying to change your mind. You're trying to change mine. And I'm not saying there aren't concerns. I'm saying every single conversation about and around AI does not need to circle back to those concerns. Yes, we know. You told us yesterday. There comes a point when you're just being a broken record.
@quanin I take that point and I certainly don't want to sound like a broken record, but what is the alternative? I would be happy to see one. We are slightly side-tracked by the fact that I wasn't actually trying to change your mind by my OP, but to explain to the poster that originated this thread why we feel we can't "give it a rest" and that I think expecting such is unreasonable.
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@quanin I take that point and I certainly don't want to sound like a broken record, but what is the alternative? I would be happy to see one. We are slightly side-tracked by the fact that I wasn't actually trying to change your mind by my OP, but to explain to the poster that originated this thread why we feel we can't "give it a rest" and that I think expecting such is unreasonable.
@quanin psychological studies show that minority influence, to be successful, must be consistent, i.e. it must keep pushing its message. It must also be flexible, hence my assertion that, were I shown sizable benefits that stack against the negatives I've advanced, I would be happy to moderate my position. What is the alternative therefore, to keep trying to raise awareness of the harm AI can and is doing? Those that don't care won't listen, but those that do, might.
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@quanin I take that point and I certainly don't want to sound like a broken record, but what is the alternative? I would be happy to see one. We are slightly side-tracked by the fact that I wasn't actually trying to change your mind by my OP, but to explain to the poster that originated this thread why we feel we can't "give it a rest" and that I think expecting such is unreasonable.
@JustinMac84 The alternative is, as I keep telling you, not bringing this up in every single conversation about AI. Yes, those studies exist. And yes, in 6 months we'll see studies that say the opposite. It's the social media mental health debate all over again. You have made what you believe clear. But here's the thing. It doesn't matter whether I agree with what you believe or not, because nothing that was being discussed in the thread you replied to was arguing for or against what you believe. It became about what you believe when you entered the thread.
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@JustinMac84 The alternative is, as I keep telling you, not bringing this up in every single conversation about AI. Yes, those studies exist. And yes, in 6 months we'll see studies that say the opposite. It's the social media mental health debate all over again. You have made what you believe clear. But here's the thing. It doesn't matter whether I agree with what you believe or not, because nothing that was being discussed in the thread you replied to was arguing for or against what you believe. It became about what you believe when you entered the thread.
@quanin I'm not seeing that. The OP told AI haters to give it a rest because of minor benefits disabled people experience. I think we can both agree that I come under what the OP would class as an "AI hater". Therefore the conversation was absolutely relevant to me and I felt it important to point out that its not personal against the users, nor is it a blanket hate, from me anyway, of all things AI, mearly the current implementation thereof.
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@quanin I'm not seeing that. The OP told AI haters to give it a rest because of minor benefits disabled people experience. I think we can both agree that I come under what the OP would class as an "AI hater". Therefore the conversation was absolutely relevant to me and I felt it important to point out that its not personal against the users, nor is it a blanket hate, from me anyway, of all things AI, mearly the current implementation thereof.
@JustinMac84 Right now, you sound like an AI hater. Particularly because you literally came into a thread where the AI haters were being asked to knock it off because this literally comes up in every conversation, and you're basically saying no. For the record, because you apparently won't let this go unless I explicitly say it, I agree with you. And in general AI is making most people lazier, even if you remove all of those other concerns. We still don't need to hear about it in every single AI conversation. That's the broken record.
I wish I hadn't untagged the OP though as it turns out I did thread appropriately.