Can the AI haters give it a rest already?
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I think her point is the bad actors are absolutely your service providers. I have 0 doubt my data is being sold, and I have even less doubt my phone company's the one selling it. But I need a phone company, so that's the baseline. But when that's the baseline, the rest is basically just Tuesday.
@quanin @JustinMac84 Ex fucking xactly. The bad actors are everyfuckingwhere now. You can do nothing about it. Scaring people is useless. I need a service provider. To read my printed media. Why? Because having people do it for me isn't helpful. It's actually far less than helpful. The government ain't gonna give me my very own extra special helpy happy helper person to come read my mail for me. Why? Because I ain't entitled.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I think her point is the bad actors are absolutely your service providers. I have 0 doubt my data is being sold, and I have even less doubt my phone company's the one selling it. But I need a phone company, so that's the baseline. But when that's the baseline, the rest is basically just Tuesday.
@quanin @Meepercat The particularly disturbing part of that article, though, is that it's not just data you chose to share being abused, your device is collecting data from you and doing God knows what with it without being asked. I think this is unacceptable and would push back by all possible means against such practices. Judging by her extreme reaction, perhaps that makes me weird, who knows?
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@quanin An absolutely valid point. If I've just invited you for tea and other normal behaviours and you prefer to be at my house than anywhere else, that is absolutely a problem that falls on the anywhere else. I agree completely and there is certainly much about society that needs fixing! If I manipulate you to stay though, I bear a share of the blame and so should suffer consequences for that unacceptable behaviour.
@JustinMac84 The problem is, prove it. Mastodon has no algorithm, but can be just as addictive as Facebook is if someone wants it to be. Arguably you and I are wasting a disproportionate amount of time on the platform right now without being addicted. So how do you separate "these people were addicted to Facebook, or TikTok, or Mastodon, or whatever" from "these people are living in a 2026 world and that's rough"? Most people don't want to separate the two. Johny spent all his time on Facebook, Johny hurt himself, therefore, Facebook made him. No, perhaps his mental health having been shit since Covid made him and Facebook delayed it. You do not know.
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@quanin @Meepercat The particularly disturbing part of that article, though, is that it's not just data you chose to share being abused, your device is collecting data from you and doing God knows what with it without being asked. I think this is unacceptable and would push back by all possible means against such practices. Judging by her extreme reaction, perhaps that makes me weird, who knows?
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Like I said. Basically Tuesday. You don't even need a Facebook account for Meta to track you. It's everywhere now. Getting hot and bothered about one component of that everywhere is not very productive.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Like I said. Basically Tuesday. You don't even need a Facebook account for Meta to track you. It's everywhere now. Getting hot and bothered about one component of that everywhere is not very productive.
@quanin @JustinMac84 Exactly. It's Tuesday. Everything tracks our everywhere. My phone probably knows when I'm taking a poop because I'm reading the news.
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@quanin @JustinMac84 Ex fucking xactly. The bad actors are everyfuckingwhere now. You can do nothing about it. Scaring people is useless. I need a service provider. To read my printed media. Why? Because having people do it for me isn't helpful. It's actually far less than helpful. The government ain't gonna give me my very own extra special helpy happy helper person to come read my mail for me. Why? Because I ain't entitled.
@Meepercat @quanin I would say that rolling over and accepting that is like being in an abusive relationship. That's what the GDPR is about. That's what the Digital Markets Bill or whatever it's called is about. For me, accepting that privacy has ceased to exist and I might as well accept it is the ultimate, distopian defeat. Personally, however ineffectual, I just won't do that. I respect others' helpless feelings though.
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@quanin @JustinMac84 Ex fucking xactly. The bad actors are everyfuckingwhere now. You can do nothing about it. Scaring people is useless. I need a service provider. To read my printed media. Why? Because having people do it for me isn't helpful. It's actually far less than helpful. The government ain't gonna give me my very own extra special helpy happy helper person to come read my mail for me. Why? Because I ain't entitled.
@Meepercat @quanin People are trying to push back with those bills and laws. I believe we have to make our voices heard, to curb the use of technologies that abuse us, otherwise we give up all freedoms. I just can't do that. I respect those that feel they have no choice, but would encourage them that isn't the case and to assert themselves against their abusers.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Like I said. Basically Tuesday. You don't even need a Facebook account for Meta to track you. It's everywhere now. Getting hot and bothered about one component of that everywhere is not very productive.
@quanin @Meepercat Change won't happen overnight. You can't push back against everything all at once, though goodness knows I try. But you can push back against the latest incursions. You can raise awareness and hope that others will push back too. Some will, most won't. That's how it goes. Hopefully the little pushes will add up to something, maybe they won't. Bottom line is, I'd rather do something than nothing.
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@Meepercat @quanin I would say that rolling over and accepting that is like being in an abusive relationship. That's what the GDPR is about. That's what the Digital Markets Bill or whatever it's called is about. For me, accepting that privacy has ceased to exist and I might as well accept it is the ultimate, distopian defeat. Personally, however ineffectual, I just won't do that. I respect others' helpless feelings though.
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Having been on the other side of many of those GDPR conversations thanks to the people who paid me, that's not a solution. Sure, it makes people feel better, but there are so many legal exemptions that mean companies can still hold onto your data for an extended period despite you being asked to be forgotten. For example, the company I worked for at the time, a GDPR request meant we were absolutely required to delete your web content, your user account, any pictures of you that you posted to the site, etc. But we could hold onto your conversation history with us, your financial information, and a few other pieces of information that I can't think of right now because that was nearly two years ago. But hey, they got to ask to be forgotten, so they won, right? No.
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@JustinMac84 The problem is, prove it. Mastodon has no algorithm, but can be just as addictive as Facebook is if someone wants it to be. Arguably you and I are wasting a disproportionate amount of time on the platform right now without being addicted. So how do you separate "these people were addicted to Facebook, or TikTok, or Mastodon, or whatever" from "these people are living in a 2026 world and that's rough"? Most people don't want to separate the two. Johny spent all his time on Facebook, Johny hurt himself, therefore, Facebook made him. No, perhaps his mental health having been shit since Covid made him and Facebook delayed it. You do not know.
@quanin I would argue that my time spent talking to you hasn't been a waste. That was a valuable article you sent me, from which I feel I have learned something. I have found the very activity of respectful disagreement rewarding, since I find it so rare on social media. It's nice not wholy to agree with someone and yet for no-one to resort to hate. That, in itself, to me, is a net win.
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@quanin @Meepercat Change won't happen overnight. You can't push back against everything all at once, though goodness knows I try. But you can push back against the latest incursions. You can raise awareness and hope that others will push back too. Some will, most won't. That's how it goes. Hopefully the little pushes will add up to something, maybe they won't. Bottom line is, I'd rather do something than nothing.
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I would respectfully submit that that might very well be your addiction, my friend.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Having been on the other side of many of those GDPR conversations thanks to the people who paid me, that's not a solution. Sure, it makes people feel better, but there are so many legal exemptions that mean companies can still hold onto your data for an extended period despite you being asked to be forgotten. For example, the company I worked for at the time, a GDPR request meant we were absolutely required to delete your web content, your user account, any pictures of you that you posted to the site, etc. But we could hold onto your conversation history with us, your financial information, and a few other pieces of information that I can't think of right now because that was nearly two years ago. But hey, they got to ask to be forgotten, so they won, right? No.
@quanin @JustinMac84 To compare that to an abusive relationship is... a piss poor comparison to say the least. Yes, I know my privacy is being violated, but am I going to make my life more difficult by asking my *real* abusers to do more for me that they don't want to do? Please, put that one in your pipe and smoke it, for a good, long, while.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I would respectfully submit that that might very well be your addiction, my friend.
@quanin @Meepercat An interesting point of view. Not sure how tongue in cheek you're being. I want to be free. I want not to be abused. I want to suffer as little abuse as possible, for that to be the case for all of us. If that is an addiction and, honestly, I don't accept that, since I define addiction as something that harms you, so be it.
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@quanin I would argue that my time spent talking to you hasn't been a waste. That was a valuable article you sent me, from which I feel I have learned something. I have found the very activity of respectful disagreement rewarding, since I find it so rare on social media. It's nice not wholy to agree with someone and yet for no-one to resort to hate. That, in itself, to me, is a net win.
@JustinMac84 I mean, this was a conversation that didn't need to happen, and only happened because you had an argument to make. I'm glad you learned something, but honestly, I stopped caring about this thread when I went to bed last night.
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@quanin @Meepercat An interesting point of view. Not sure how tongue in cheek you're being. I want to be free. I want not to be abused. I want to suffer as little abuse as possible, for that to be the case for all of us. If that is an addiction and, honestly, I don't accept that, since I define addiction as something that harms you, so be it.
@JustinMac84 @quanin You ever been told to find another place to live by people who have prevented you from getting a work history or a rental history? You ever been called a piece of shit? Threatened with institutionalization? Those things are abuse. Go look up the definition of abuse before you start spouting off on what abuse is.
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@quanin @JustinMac84 To compare that to an abusive relationship is... a piss poor comparison to say the least. Yes, I know my privacy is being violated, but am I going to make my life more difficult by asking my *real* abusers to do more for me that they don't want to do? Please, put that one in your pipe and smoke it, for a good, long, while.
@Meepercat @quanin Of course it's an abusive relationship. This person or entity does things to me that I would rather they didn't do, but I'm powerless against it so I have to let them do whatever they like. If that isn't abuse I really don't know what is. They give me a little bit of what I need and shit on me for the privelidge therefore it's a good deal? That! Is! Abuse! By any metric or measure, that is absolutely abuse.
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@JustinMac84 I mean, this was a conversation that didn't need to happen, and only happened because you had an argument to make. I'm glad you learned something, but honestly, I stopped caring about this thread when I went to bed last night.
@quanin I'm sorry you haven't got anything from it and will leave you in peace.
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@quanin @Meepercat An interesting point of view. Not sure how tongue in cheek you're being. I want to be free. I want not to be abused. I want to suffer as little abuse as possible, for that to be the case for all of us. If that is an addiction and, honestly, I don't accept that, since I define addiction as something that harms you, so be it.
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Addictions can also be harmful to other people, even if they don't directly harm you. The fact that your position is being seen as a choice between a consentual relationship that you see as abusive and a non-consentual relationship that someone else sees as abusive... that's the harm. You're literally asking them to prefer the non-consentual abuse. That may not be what you're intending, but if it needs to be pointed out to you, it's also because you can't see that. Addiction blinds people.
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@JustinMac84 @quanin You ever been told to find another place to live by people who have prevented you from getting a work history or a rental history? You ever been called a piece of shit? Threatened with institutionalization? Those things are abuse. Go look up the definition of abuse before you start spouting off on what abuse is.
@Meepercat I am sorry you have suffered those things, but the existence of one type of abuse doesn't preclude the existence of another, nor does it mean there aren't degrees of abuse. that you have suffered those things isn't my fault and I see no reason for you to be offensive or to take it out on me.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Addictions can also be harmful to other people, even if they don't directly harm you. The fact that your position is being seen as a choice between a consentual relationship that you see as abusive and a non-consentual relationship that someone else sees as abusive... that's the harm. You're literally asking them to prefer the non-consentual abuse. That may not be what you're intending, but if it needs to be pointed out to you, it's also because you can't see that. Addiction blinds people.
@quanin @Meepercat that's a mis-representation of my argument. I'm not saying that and I think you know that. Even you acknowledge it as abuse. I myself, grudgingly, use the same services she does. Doesn't mean I have to like it, nor that I have to take it lying down, nor that I don't use other alternatives that I hope aren't abusive wherever and whenever possible.
I literally did not say she should prefer being abused one way to another.
