Can the AI haters give it a rest already?
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@Meepercat @quanin I would say that rolling over and accepting that is like being in an abusive relationship. That's what the GDPR is about. That's what the Digital Markets Bill or whatever it's called is about. For me, accepting that privacy has ceased to exist and I might as well accept it is the ultimate, distopian defeat. Personally, however ineffectual, I just won't do that. I respect others' helpless feelings though.
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Having been on the other side of many of those GDPR conversations thanks to the people who paid me, that's not a solution. Sure, it makes people feel better, but there are so many legal exemptions that mean companies can still hold onto your data for an extended period despite you being asked to be forgotten. For example, the company I worked for at the time, a GDPR request meant we were absolutely required to delete your web content, your user account, any pictures of you that you posted to the site, etc. But we could hold onto your conversation history with us, your financial information, and a few other pieces of information that I can't think of right now because that was nearly two years ago. But hey, they got to ask to be forgotten, so they won, right? No.
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@JustinMac84 The problem is, prove it. Mastodon has no algorithm, but can be just as addictive as Facebook is if someone wants it to be. Arguably you and I are wasting a disproportionate amount of time on the platform right now without being addicted. So how do you separate "these people were addicted to Facebook, or TikTok, or Mastodon, or whatever" from "these people are living in a 2026 world and that's rough"? Most people don't want to separate the two. Johny spent all his time on Facebook, Johny hurt himself, therefore, Facebook made him. No, perhaps his mental health having been shit since Covid made him and Facebook delayed it. You do not know.
@quanin I would argue that my time spent talking to you hasn't been a waste. That was a valuable article you sent me, from which I feel I have learned something. I have found the very activity of respectful disagreement rewarding, since I find it so rare on social media. It's nice not wholy to agree with someone and yet for no-one to resort to hate. That, in itself, to me, is a net win.
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@quanin @Meepercat Change won't happen overnight. You can't push back against everything all at once, though goodness knows I try. But you can push back against the latest incursions. You can raise awareness and hope that others will push back too. Some will, most won't. That's how it goes. Hopefully the little pushes will add up to something, maybe they won't. Bottom line is, I'd rather do something than nothing.
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I would respectfully submit that that might very well be your addiction, my friend.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Having been on the other side of many of those GDPR conversations thanks to the people who paid me, that's not a solution. Sure, it makes people feel better, but there are so many legal exemptions that mean companies can still hold onto your data for an extended period despite you being asked to be forgotten. For example, the company I worked for at the time, a GDPR request meant we were absolutely required to delete your web content, your user account, any pictures of you that you posted to the site, etc. But we could hold onto your conversation history with us, your financial information, and a few other pieces of information that I can't think of right now because that was nearly two years ago. But hey, they got to ask to be forgotten, so they won, right? No.
@quanin @JustinMac84 To compare that to an abusive relationship is... a piss poor comparison to say the least. Yes, I know my privacy is being violated, but am I going to make my life more difficult by asking my *real* abusers to do more for me that they don't want to do? Please, put that one in your pipe and smoke it, for a good, long, while.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I would respectfully submit that that might very well be your addiction, my friend.
@quanin @Meepercat An interesting point of view. Not sure how tongue in cheek you're being. I want to be free. I want not to be abused. I want to suffer as little abuse as possible, for that to be the case for all of us. If that is an addiction and, honestly, I don't accept that, since I define addiction as something that harms you, so be it.
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@quanin I would argue that my time spent talking to you hasn't been a waste. That was a valuable article you sent me, from which I feel I have learned something. I have found the very activity of respectful disagreement rewarding, since I find it so rare on social media. It's nice not wholy to agree with someone and yet for no-one to resort to hate. That, in itself, to me, is a net win.
@JustinMac84 I mean, this was a conversation that didn't need to happen, and only happened because you had an argument to make. I'm glad you learned something, but honestly, I stopped caring about this thread when I went to bed last night.
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@quanin @Meepercat An interesting point of view. Not sure how tongue in cheek you're being. I want to be free. I want not to be abused. I want to suffer as little abuse as possible, for that to be the case for all of us. If that is an addiction and, honestly, I don't accept that, since I define addiction as something that harms you, so be it.
@JustinMac84 @quanin You ever been told to find another place to live by people who have prevented you from getting a work history or a rental history? You ever been called a piece of shit? Threatened with institutionalization? Those things are abuse. Go look up the definition of abuse before you start spouting off on what abuse is.
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@quanin @JustinMac84 To compare that to an abusive relationship is... a piss poor comparison to say the least. Yes, I know my privacy is being violated, but am I going to make my life more difficult by asking my *real* abusers to do more for me that they don't want to do? Please, put that one in your pipe and smoke it, for a good, long, while.
@Meepercat @quanin Of course it's an abusive relationship. This person or entity does things to me that I would rather they didn't do, but I'm powerless against it so I have to let them do whatever they like. If that isn't abuse I really don't know what is. They give me a little bit of what I need and shit on me for the privelidge therefore it's a good deal? That! Is! Abuse! By any metric or measure, that is absolutely abuse.
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@JustinMac84 I mean, this was a conversation that didn't need to happen, and only happened because you had an argument to make. I'm glad you learned something, but honestly, I stopped caring about this thread when I went to bed last night.
@quanin I'm sorry you haven't got anything from it and will leave you in peace.
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@quanin @Meepercat An interesting point of view. Not sure how tongue in cheek you're being. I want to be free. I want not to be abused. I want to suffer as little abuse as possible, for that to be the case for all of us. If that is an addiction and, honestly, I don't accept that, since I define addiction as something that harms you, so be it.
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Addictions can also be harmful to other people, even if they don't directly harm you. The fact that your position is being seen as a choice between a consentual relationship that you see as abusive and a non-consentual relationship that someone else sees as abusive... that's the harm. You're literally asking them to prefer the non-consentual abuse. That may not be what you're intending, but if it needs to be pointed out to you, it's also because you can't see that. Addiction blinds people.
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@JustinMac84 @quanin You ever been told to find another place to live by people who have prevented you from getting a work history or a rental history? You ever been called a piece of shit? Threatened with institutionalization? Those things are abuse. Go look up the definition of abuse before you start spouting off on what abuse is.
@Meepercat I am sorry you have suffered those things, but the existence of one type of abuse doesn't preclude the existence of another, nor does it mean there aren't degrees of abuse. that you have suffered those things isn't my fault and I see no reason for you to be offensive or to take it out on me.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Addictions can also be harmful to other people, even if they don't directly harm you. The fact that your position is being seen as a choice between a consentual relationship that you see as abusive and a non-consentual relationship that someone else sees as abusive... that's the harm. You're literally asking them to prefer the non-consentual abuse. That may not be what you're intending, but if it needs to be pointed out to you, it's also because you can't see that. Addiction blinds people.
@quanin @Meepercat that's a mis-representation of my argument. I'm not saying that and I think you know that. Even you acknowledge it as abuse. I myself, grudgingly, use the same services she does. Doesn't mean I have to like it, nor that I have to take it lying down, nor that I don't use other alternatives that I hope aren't abusive wherever and whenever possible.
I literally did not say she should prefer being abused one way to another.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat Addictions can also be harmful to other people, even if they don't directly harm you. The fact that your position is being seen as a choice between a consentual relationship that you see as abusive and a non-consentual relationship that someone else sees as abusive... that's the harm. You're literally asking them to prefer the non-consentual abuse. That may not be what you're intending, but if it needs to be pointed out to you, it's also because you can't see that. Addiction blinds people.
@quanin @Meepercat The ideal is obviously no abuse at all.
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@quanin @Meepercat that's a mis-representation of my argument. I'm not saying that and I think you know that. Even you acknowledge it as abuse. I myself, grudgingly, use the same services she does. Doesn't mean I have to like it, nor that I have to take it lying down, nor that I don't use other alternatives that I hope aren't abusive wherever and whenever possible.
I literally did not say she should prefer being abused one way to another.
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I mean, I used your wording, but I don't agree with it. Which is my entire point. You define abuse the way you do and that's fine. But now you're arguing against someone else's definition of abuse, and that's harmful.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I mean, I used your wording, but I don't agree with it. Which is my entire point. You define abuse the way you do and that's fine. But now you're arguing against someone else's definition of abuse, and that's harmful.
@quanin @Meepercat This is getting absurd. She argued against my definition of abuse. By your metric, that is harmful yet I am the one you are attacking. I said such and such was abusive, she disagreed so I defended my position. But if we are really doing this: the Webster dictionary defines abusive as: 2
: characterized by wrong or improper use or action
especially : CORRUPT
abusive financial practices. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abusive -
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I mean, I used your wording, but I don't agree with it. Which is my entire point. You define abuse the way you do and that's fine. But now you're arguing against someone else's definition of abuse, and that's harmful.
@quanin @Meepercat If you don't regard giving someone a camera that will collect sensitive images without their consent and distribute them without their consent, especially doing it to people who have little other recourse other than to put up with it as falling within that definition, I am not the one with the problem. That is an abuse of power. That is an abuse of trust. That is an abuse of the other person's vulnerability and relative lack of power.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat I mean, I used your wording, but I don't agree with it. Which is my entire point. You define abuse the way you do and that's fine. But now you're arguing against someone else's definition of abuse, and that's harmful.
@quanin @Meepercat That is, unless you regard the dictionary's disagreement with her definition as also harmful, abuse. It may not be physical, it may not be overt, she may consent to it, by her own admition because she feels she has no choice, but it is abuse.
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@quanin @Meepercat If you don't regard giving someone a camera that will collect sensitive images without their consent and distribute them without their consent, especially doing it to people who have little other recourse other than to put up with it as falling within that definition, I am not the one with the problem. That is an abuse of power. That is an abuse of trust. That is an abuse of the other person's vulnerability and relative lack of power.
@JustinMac84 @Meepercat First of all, I am not attacking you. You will absolutely know it if I am. Second, nowhere is anyone's sensitive images being collected without their consent from their own camera, unless the app that's doing it is legitimately spyware, and at that point you've got bigger problems. Even TikTok doesn't do that. Please provide an actual citation of a legitimate app actually doing that.
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat First of all, I am not attacking you. You will absolutely know it if I am. Second, nowhere is anyone's sensitive images being collected without their consent from their own camera, unless the app that's doing it is legitimately spyware, and at that point you've got bigger problems. Even TikTok doesn't do that. Please provide an actual citation of a legitimate app actually doing that.
@quanin @Meepercat You clearly didn't read the article she had such an extreme reaction to. In it, it records instances of Meta Glasses literally recording people not their owner as long as 5 minutes after users left the room. Same article references Siri eavesdropping. So spyware. But I would argue they are just the most extreme cases. Sharing the naked pictures I may choose to share with my partner on *my* device *without my consent* is also...
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@JustinMac84 @Meepercat First of all, I am not attacking you. You will absolutely know it if I am. Second, nowhere is anyone's sensitive images being collected without their consent from their own camera, unless the app that's doing it is legitimately spyware, and at that point you've got bigger problems. Even TikTok doesn't do that. Please provide an actual citation of a legitimate app actually doing that.
@quanin @Meepercat I strongly maintain, abuse. Those are images I have chosen to take and share within strict parameters. For a company to take it upon itself to do what it likes with them is violation.
