i am so tired of "ethical concerns aside" being a phrase i see every single time someone tries to defend the use of LLMs.

[yora@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@nicuveo Yeah, ethical concerns aside, the Nazis did lower unemployment in the 30s.
Ethical concerns are the primary concerns that overrule everything else.

[vantablack2000@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@nicuveo "Ethical concerns aside". What does AI even do other than produce slop and make people reliant on technology. In like 90% of cases it is a net negative or does no good. That means when we add ethical concerns BACK in we have lost the plot and Gen AI should die in a hole and burn in the underworld.

[davey_cakes@mastodon.ie]

@nicuveo I always read that one as "I don't want to admit how little ever actually crosses the line for me in case I look like a psychopath."

[nicuveo@tech.lgbt]

@phil is this sarcasm? or are you really saying that "tediousness" is enough for you to put ethics aside?

[geonz@mathstodon.xyz]

@nicuveo Yes, like the guy who said that if you didn't say please and thank you to teh LLM you were probably rude to people and when called on it, said that well, anthropomorphising is something we do and that while it **can** be unhealthy if we go too far..
HELLO????? What do you think happens on the regular w/ LLMS ?

[kkarhan@c.im]

@octothorpe @nicuveo @jwz true, true…

[casey9w@mastodon.social]

@nicuveo do sociopathic tech bros of any gender have ethics? Empathy? Souls?

[cstamp@mastodon.social]

@nicuveo Ethical concerns aside, it still dumbs people down and is not trustworthy.

[maddiem4@raphus.social]

@phil @nicuveo was "I would give up the destruction of our planet, economy, digital security, and collective bargaining power, if somebody would just give me slave labor to work with" supposed to be a counterpoint to the OP, or just an example?

[gildilinie@beige.party]

@nicuveo what about "ethical concerns aside, it doesn't even work for the stuff they say to use it for"

[nicuveo@tech.lgbt]

@gildilinie well, see, i agree, but it's important to stress that ethical concerns should be a priority *even if* it worked as well as they advertise. and that's why we have to keep stressing this: if somehow the bubble doesn't burst, they somehow manage to make the models better, they somehow manage to stay afloat, they somehow manage to make it work, we should still not cede an inch.

[phairupegiont@mastodon.social]

@nicuveo the same argument works for non-drunk driving

[gildilinie@beige.party]

@nicuveo somehow

[nicuveo@tech.lgbt]

@gildilinie i agree it's not gonna happen; my point is just that we shouldn't argue about utility / usefulness when the debate is about ethics: debating about usefulness, even pointing out that LLMs suck (which they do, don't get me wrong) is elevating that topic to the same level.
in other words, to use a metaphor i saw in another thread: it's irrelevant whether the orphan-crushing machine is good for the economy or not. ^^"

[gildilinie@beige.party]

@nicuveo "i killed a dude and took his one billion dollar" and "i killed a man in Reno just to watch him die" are both unethical but very different situations

[pino@social.cologne]

@nicuveo That's how BigTech became BigTech in the last ~15-20 years. It's much older than the public discussions about LLM. You just haven't talked about ethics at all for a long time.

[disorderlyf@todon.eu]

@nicuveo I mean, I usually use it to say there's multiple layers to how shitty LLMs are, but mostly I reserve that for what I don't think the intended audience gives a shit about the suffering caused by the torment nexus.

[nicuveo@tech.lgbt]

@disorderlyf there's a huge difference between the criticism approach ("even putting ethics aside, there are a lot of issues with LLMs") and the defensive one ("but if you put ethics aside they have some value worth considering!"), IMHO. what you describe is the former, what i despise is the prevalence of the latter ^^

[disorderlyf@todon.eu]

@nicuveo I had a feeling that's where you stood on it, but I wasn't sure. In which case, it sounds like we're entirely in agreement, as I hear too many of these damned shills straight up pretending those problems don't exist and being like "but it is good now, actually"

[indigoparadox@mastodon.social]

@nicuveo Richard Stallman just did this toot opposing breathalyzers in cars: https://mastodon.xyz/@rms/116581752793267275

It's all tied together.