Can we please not with all the ableist language I'm seeing around discussing AI (and anything, really)?
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@Curator @saltywizard I don't mean to turn this into a class or unpaid consultation but: are "dickhead", "shithead" and "asshole" OK?
@cairobraga @saltywizard I've been trying to avoid things that use sex-specific bodyparts, to avoid e.g. implying that penises are bad (calling someone a dickhead) - I stick with things that are more general, like shithead and asshole
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@cairobraga @saltywizard I've been trying to avoid things that use sex-specific bodyparts, to avoid e.g. implying that penises are bad (calling someone a dickhead) - I stick with things that are more general, like shithead and asshole
@Curator @saltywizard I'm a penis owner (and penis enjoyer!) and I never stopped to think about that, isn't it wild? what you're saying does indeed make sense. thank you again!
also, linguistically speaking, the concept of "shit" as derogatory is so versatile and full of possibilities across most languages, one might even build a full list of words and terms based on it to replace ableist and otherwise bigoted language.
a note about "asshole": in Brazilian Portuguese everyday language we use "ass" (anus) in more than a thousand different terms, expressions and idioms, across all the spectrum of positive-neutral-negative feelings. "cuzão" (lit. "big ass", the most direct translation of "asshole" as an insult from English) when used towards a person is an offensive word related to a person's bad behaviour and/or personality; "cuzão" can also refer to someone's big butt in a positive way, and also mean that someone is very lucky and fortunate (there's a whole repertoire of expressions relating having a big butt to having good luck in PTBR).
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@Curator @saltywizard I'm a penis owner (and penis enjoyer!) and I never stopped to think about that, isn't it wild? what you're saying does indeed make sense. thank you again!
also, linguistically speaking, the concept of "shit" as derogatory is so versatile and full of possibilities across most languages, one might even build a full list of words and terms based on it to replace ableist and otherwise bigoted language.
a note about "asshole": in Brazilian Portuguese everyday language we use "ass" (anus) in more than a thousand different terms, expressions and idioms, across all the spectrum of positive-neutral-negative feelings. "cuzão" (lit. "big ass", the most direct translation of "asshole" as an insult from English) when used towards a person is an offensive word related to a person's bad behaviour and/or personality; "cuzão" can also refer to someone's big butt in a positive way, and also mean that someone is very lucky and fortunate (there's a whole repertoire of expressions relating having a big butt to having good luck in PTBR).
@cairobraga I approve of the many butt words in PTBR!
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@cairobraga @saltywizard I've been trying to avoid things that use sex-specific bodyparts, to avoid e.g. implying that penises are bad (calling someone a dickhead) - I stick with things that are more general, like shithead and asshole
assholes aren't fundamentally bad and are, in fact, quite beloved in some circles.
shit, by contrast, should be avoided. two girls-one cup, not withstanding.
this topic always reminds me of lenny bruce's take on 'fuck you.' he suggested, and i agree, that this is a blessing, not an insult.
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assholes aren't fundamentally bad and are, in fact, quite beloved in some circles.
shit, by contrast, should be avoided. two girls-one cup, not withstanding.
this topic always reminds me of lenny bruce's take on 'fuck you.' he suggested, and i agree, that this is a blessing, not an insult.
@saltywizard @Curator this reminds me of: there's this guy at work that's super attractive, stylish, polite, smart and nice and we were joking around during the shift, as a group, then I got him on a punchline, he laughed and said "fuck you" while smiling and I replied "I wish you would" while also smiling. he belly-laughed then came around to give me a hug and said "well played!".
unfortunately he's not sexually attracted to me. oh well.
all of this to say that I love playing with the ambiguity of "fuck you" and I agree with what you said Lenny Bruce said.
one more note on "assholes": I'm an enjoyer, 1000%! I still like the distinction of "have an asshole, don't be one", so I can get on board with it being used positively and/or negatively. also because, as per my previous post on this conversation, in the culture I was raised in the asshole contains multitudes.
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@Curator Look at the word "idiot". In ancient greek, that's simply somebody not belonging to the "polites", i.e. the people who vote. That word was introduced as a polite, non agressive euphemism, but as soon as it was used as intended, it became a "slur" and using it was prohibited.
In my life alone, I have seen the euphemist evolution from "negro" to "black" to "of color", and I fully expect "PoC" to become taboo within a few years. The rules change all the time.
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@saltywizard @Curator this reminds me of: there's this guy at work that's super attractive, stylish, polite, smart and nice and we were joking around during the shift, as a group, then I got him on a punchline, he laughed and said "fuck you" while smiling and I replied "I wish you would" while also smiling. he belly-laughed then came around to give me a hug and said "well played!".
unfortunately he's not sexually attracted to me. oh well.
all of this to say that I love playing with the ambiguity of "fuck you" and I agree with what you said Lenny Bruce said.
one more note on "assholes": I'm an enjoyer, 1000%! I still like the distinction of "have an asshole, don't be one", so I can get on board with it being used positively and/or negatively. also because, as per my previous post on this conversation, in the culture I was raised in the asshole contains multitudes.
I'm glad your colleague took your come-on in good humour at least, but sorry it didn't work out for you!
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@saltywizard @Curator this reminds me of: there's this guy at work that's super attractive, stylish, polite, smart and nice and we were joking around during the shift, as a group, then I got him on a punchline, he laughed and said "fuck you" while smiling and I replied "I wish you would" while also smiling. he belly-laughed then came around to give me a hug and said "well played!".
unfortunately he's not sexually attracted to me. oh well.
all of this to say that I love playing with the ambiguity of "fuck you" and I agree with what you said Lenny Bruce said.
one more note on "assholes": I'm an enjoyer, 1000%! I still like the distinction of "have an asshole, don't be one", so I can get on board with it being used positively and/or negatively. also because, as per my previous post on this conversation, in the culture I was raised in the asshole contains multitudes.
"the asshole contains multitudes."
— quote of the day -
"the asshole contains multitudes."
— quote of the day -
Lunatic, insane, stupid, dumb, retarded, moron, idiot, imbecile, cretin, crazy, mad, nuts.
Any word that relates to low intelligence, smartness, or IQ.
Seriously, this is Nazi shit; you are literally doing the work of fascists in using language like this.
I appreciate that you might not have known, especially if English is not your first language and you weren't aware of the history of these words and their use as insults, but NOW YOU DO KNOW.
And now you can stop.
disclaimer: I’m mildly autistic and english is not my native language, so please take that into consideration when replying.
I appreciate what you are trying to achieve here, but i would like to emphasize that in all communication context matters most. Blanket bans on words are not always the best approach, and in fact that’s something nazis and fascists really love doing.
For example: if someone says ”Bob is an idiot, he’s a nazi” you should not scold the person for using the word ”idiot” in their statement. Instead you should scold Bob. Bob chose to be a nazi.
However if someone says ”Dave is an idiot, he has down’s syndrome” then the person saying that does need all the scolding. Dave didn’t choose to have down’s syndrome.
Now if we replace the word ”idiot” with, for example ”asshole” in the above two statements, they become much more muddled in meaning, and end up benefiting Bob as he probably considers being an asshole a merit...
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disclaimer: I’m mildly autistic and english is not my native language, so please take that into consideration when replying.
I appreciate what you are trying to achieve here, but i would like to emphasize that in all communication context matters most. Blanket bans on words are not always the best approach, and in fact that’s something nazis and fascists really love doing.
For example: if someone says ”Bob is an idiot, he’s a nazi” you should not scold the person for using the word ”idiot” in their statement. Instead you should scold Bob. Bob chose to be a nazi.
However if someone says ”Dave is an idiot, he has down’s syndrome” then the person saying that does need all the scolding. Dave didn’t choose to have down’s syndrome.
Now if we replace the word ”idiot” with, for example ”asshole” in the above two statements, they become much more muddled in meaning, and end up benefiting Bob as he probably considers being an asshole a merit...
@unkx You're still choosing to use a word that means 'low intelligence'. Even if you're not using that word to describe a person, you're still associating low intelligence with bad behaviour. It's still ableist. And as I said above, not knowing is fine - until you DO know, and then you can make that choice.
If you're going to choose to still use ableist words knowing they're ableist, then you're a bigot.
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@unkx You're still choosing to use a word that means 'low intelligence'. Even if you're not using that word to describe a person, you're still associating low intelligence with bad behaviour. It's still ableist. And as I said above, not knowing is fine - until you DO know, and then you can make that choice.
If you're going to choose to still use ableist words knowing they're ableist, then you're a bigot.
@unkx Also, penty of Nazis have a high IQ or are smart or have high intelligence, however you want to describe it. IQ itself is a fascist tool, but that's a different argument. You're saying 'asshole' is more muddled in meaning, while choosing to use a non-specific and irrelevant word to describe someone. If Bob's a nazi, call him a nazi. His intellect is entirely irrelevant.
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Lunatic, insane, stupid, dumb, retarded, moron, idiot, imbecile, cretin, crazy, mad, nuts.
Any word that relates to low intelligence, smartness, or IQ.
Seriously, this is Nazi shit; you are literally doing the work of fascists in using language like this.
I appreciate that you might not have known, especially if English is not your first language and you weren't aware of the history of these words and their use as insults, but NOW YOU DO KNOW.
And now you can stop.
Look, before you slide into my replies giving me all kinds of tired, over-used, and entirely anticipated arguments for why you should be allowed to say the ableist words, actually - don't.
Don't bother. I've heard it all before, and your arguments - every single one of them - are full of holes and nonsensical, I can refute you all day. This is not my first 'but I want to use the bad words' rodeo.
If you want to do the work of fascism and support eugenics, fine, but keep it out of my mentions.
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Look, before you slide into my replies giving me all kinds of tired, over-used, and entirely anticipated arguments for why you should be allowed to say the ableist words, actually - don't.
Don't bother. I've heard it all before, and your arguments - every single one of them - are full of holes and nonsensical, I can refute you all day. This is not my first 'but I want to use the bad words' rodeo.
If you want to do the work of fascism and support eugenics, fine, but keep it out of my mentions.
Also I'll block you from mastodon.art and then you won't be able to see the pretty art.
You don't deserve the pretty art, anyway, and all the disabled, neurodiverse people on this instance are better off without you.
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@unkx Also, penty of Nazis have a high IQ or are smart or have high intelligence, however you want to describe it. IQ itself is a fascist tool, but that's a different argument. You're saying 'asshole' is more muddled in meaning, while choosing to use a non-specific and irrelevant word to describe someone. If Bob's a nazi, call him a nazi. His intellect is entirely irrelevant.
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@Curator @saltywizard my flabber is gasted, and my heart is honoured with such piece of calligraphical art. I can't thank you enough for this, Curator, truly. (I'm not even joking, I'm truly touched by this.)
as the kids say nowadays: thanks to you I peaked, it's peak.
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@Curator @saltywizard my flabber is gasted, and my heart is honoured with such piece of calligraphical art. I can't thank you enough for this, Curator, truly. (I'm not even joking, I'm truly touched by this.)
as the kids say nowadays: thanks to you I peaked, it's peak.
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@terribletowelie @Curator @saltywizard this JUMPSCARE was uncalled for.
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Lunatic, insane, stupid, dumb, retarded, moron, idiot, imbecile, cretin, crazy, mad, nuts.
Any word that relates to low intelligence, smartness, or IQ.
Seriously, this is Nazi shit; you are literally doing the work of fascists in using language like this.
I appreciate that you might not have known, especially if English is not your first language and you weren't aware of the history of these words and their use as insults, but NOW YOU DO KNOW.
And now you can stop.
@Curator
TIL, thank you
I had sometimes used #2 (not towards a person, but to describe something happening), #3, #4, and #7,
but hadn't really given it much thought before that it would be ableist language.
