With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!!
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@taylorlorenz I think one of the best ways is to recommend specific instances to people, that helps with being overwhelmed with options, etc. I've recommended this one I'm on (c.im) to several people and have had a couple join up that way.
@jake4480 @taylorlorenz Good point. I think people stumble right at the start because they overthink instances.
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The fedi is slowly becoming a NORC (naturally occurring retirement community)
Only facebook has an older userbase.
And being more old than young that isn't a personal problem. But I wish there was more interest in making it a place younger people would care about. And that would mean listening to them.
@futurebird @Phosphenes @bovaz @aurochs I settled here after losing several commercially run on-line communities.
Being able to lose a server but keep your community is a feature that people who *haven't* gone through that wouldn't appreciate quite as much
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@bovaz @aurochs @futurebird @Phosphenes Moreover, "ads that fit with the flow" do much greater harm.
When an annoying ad interrupts what you're doing, it makes you angry at whoever placed it, not favorable towards what they want you to desire or think.
When an ad is slipped in between Facebook posts disguised as something a friend shared, it's more likely to manipulate you.
That's a big part of why we have such a nazi problem.
@dalias@hachyderm.io @aurochs@todon.eu @futurebird@sauropods.win @Phosphenes@mastodon.social "ads that fit with the flow" CAN do much greater harm, in my opinion, depending on the ad, but I admit I'm not the greatest expert on the topic, so I may be wrong. -
@futurebird@sauropods.win @Phosphenes@mastodon.social @aurochs@todon.eu Honestly, I love the "no ads" thing, but not everyone I know agrees. Sure, they complain about ads, but it's mostly where they interrupt what they are doing. Often, they don't mind, or even enjoy, well done ads that fit with the flow of what they are doing.
The ad industry thought that making people numb by forcing more ads at us from everywhere all the time was the solution, but in truth well made well placed ads turn out to be seamless, and people don't mind them.@bovaz For the record, I mind ads existing at all, anywhere, ever.
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@futurebird Have you seen https://fedidevs.com/s/NjQ5/ by any chance? Seems like a pretty solid list!
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@taylorlorenz @aurochs At BMorePunk we have an account set up named @bootstraps.
Every user who signs up follows them by default. The account just me boosting things so new people don't have an empty timeline.
It's not perfect. It is a lot of work. But it at least let's new people skip the empty/uninteresting timeline. It bootstraps new people into the network.
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@jbd @hfinyow @taylorlorenz apart from that bloated elephant in the room called mastodon.social
@erikcats @jbd @hfinyow @taylorlorenz
Mastodon.social is the reason I ended up joining mastodon. I had been from reddit to Lemmy which were both ruled by this huge array of little tyrant mods. mastodon.social being too large to bully and largely hands off moderation except for the egregious stuff (racism etc.) was ideal.
I'm sure there are reasonably run smaller instances out there, but going on recommendations isn't enough, people are biased for their instance. Social allows for acclimation.
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The fedi is slowly becoming a NORC (naturally occurring retirement community)
Only facebook has an older userbase.
And being more old than young that isn't a personal problem. But I wish there was more interest in making it a place younger people would care about. And that would mean listening to them.
@futurebird @Phosphenes @bovaz @aurochs I think this would require actual innovation to make new forms of social media that kids would enjoy instead of just rehashing older social media platforms.
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@bovaz @aurochs @futurebird @Phosphenes "Often, they don't mind, or even enjoy, well done ads that fit with the flow of what they are doing."
LMAO no. Lies folks dependent on advertising tell themselves. Sigh.
@dalias @bovaz @aurochs @futurebird @Phosphenes The only ads I actually don't mind are people advertising buying options for their own work, with a direct-patronage option that cuts out most intermediators. It's the advertising by people hired for the purpose, to sell someone else's work, where it all tends to go wrong. They are involved, but not *invested* in the work. They cultivate *sales* and not *fans* [with a modicum of disposable funds].
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@hfinyow @taylorlorenz what if someone created a step-by-step choice menu followed by some more stuff?
E.g.
Are you interested in
*Safety
*Hobby
*LifestyleAnd split a few times from there.
@erikcats @taylorlorenz and add geography/region to that list. I'm on an instance specific to Canada, mainly mstdn.ca. I've flirted with the idea of going over to ottawa.place but for now, I don't see a reason to move....I'm too casual a user of social media for the server I'm on to make a difference.
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Isn't the Mastodon app on Google Play an official one? I've always used that on mobile and it works great.
On PC I just open my instance on my browser
@Beldarak @taylorlorenz on my phone, I've been using Tusky. I found multiple apps for Mastodon on Google play, and just went with the one that seemed to have the best rating at the time.
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@dalias @bovaz @aurochs @futurebird @Phosphenes The only ads I actually don't mind are people advertising buying options for their own work, with a direct-patronage option that cuts out most intermediators. It's the advertising by people hired for the purpose, to sell someone else's work, where it all tends to go wrong. They are involved, but not *invested* in the work. They cultivate *sales* and not *fans* [with a modicum of disposable funds].
@log @bovaz @aurochs @futurebird @Phosphenes My definition of advertising is paid speech: one party pays or otherwise compensates another to say or relay a message they otherwise wouldn't have, usually to people who didn't want to hear it.
Telling your own audience who chose to be your audience about things they can buy from you isn't advertising. Nor is sharing something you like that you're not getting paid to share, to help someone whose work you like.
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@T_X @hfinyow @taylorlorenz yes but, pick another instance to recommended so we can protect the integrity of the fediverse
Mastodon.social is not a good way to join Mastodon. If you’re already on it, you might want to move your account to a different Mastodon server. | Fedi.Tips – An Unofficial Guide to Mastodon and the Fediverse
An unofficial guide to using Mastodon and the Fediverse
(fedi.tips)
@magpieluvseeds @T_X @taylorlorenz if you're in Canada, try mstdn.ca. I recommend anyone outside of the USA to get on a mastodon instance that is outside the control of the NSA.
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@dalias @bovaz @aurochs @futurebird @Phosphenes The only ads I actually don't mind are people advertising buying options for their own work, with a direct-patronage option that cuts out most intermediators. It's the advertising by people hired for the purpose, to sell someone else's work, where it all tends to go wrong. They are involved, but not *invested* in the work. They cultivate *sales* and not *fans* [with a modicum of disposable funds].
@log @dalias @bovaz @aurochs @futurebird
Yeah I was going to say, there's a distinction between being a rug maker advertising your rugs and being a media business supported by ads for other people's rugs.
One is incentivized to provide superior rugs and the other incentivized to provide crappier media.
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You are reasoning against the constitution of the fediVerse and FOSS @hfinyow itself.
Dictatorship is way easier than a democracy, no elections, no choice, none of the troubles independence comes with ..
@bitpickup @taylorlorenz perhaps I am, but @taylorlorenz asked the question about why people are resistant to joining. I offered my best explanation as to why that is.
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With all the tiktok drama I have been telling people Mastodon is still here and kicking!! I love this app and I really think the decentralized model is the best for social media.
Still, people don’t want to join! What do you think Mastodon’s biggest barriers are to courting new users? What could be done to improve the product and grow the user base in a positive way?
@taylorlorenz the refrain I hear from friends who tried and left is it feels too complicated and clunky.
I think part of the reason blue sky had more success despite being just as complicated is they hid most of that from the user.
A single website portal, like how bsk.app works, would help immensely
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Answering this in the off chance you read replies 🤪
Biggest barrier to courting new users: we are culturally hostile here to influence peddlers and people who are trying to broadcast and don't want to interact. (ie, we treat them like the person invited to the small cocktail party at the house, who jumps up on a table and starts yelling).
Technically, users are used to being force fed content (through viral algorithms and suggested content)... i.e. passive (like TV). Mastodon is not built like that, which means people don't know how to find things they like or people to follow.
Finally (deliberately so), Mastodon is not built to tickle the endorphins... i.e. "likes" "followers" "virality" and that often turns people off, who really would like to use social media like a gambling junkie uses a slot machine (pull the lever, hope for a big payoff!). Fundamentally, non-addictive to that kind of thing.
I don't know if we want to fix any of that, though 🤪
@ai6yr @taylorlorenz Yep, Mastodon is (community) WORK.
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@taylorlorenz one thing, the decentralized nature means there is perhaps too much choice. Do you get an account on mastodon.social, mstdn.ca, mastodon.com, tusky.whatever.... And also what app do you use to access it? When there was Twitter, there was one official app. With Mastodon, there are a multitude. Sometimes too much choice is counterproductive.
@hfinyow @taylorlorenz I consider this to be the biggest hindrance to adoption. The decentralized nature of it is its biggest asset and its biggest deficit. It took me weeks to get "accepted" to a server. I tried several and got nowhere. I finally found one, didn't work out, moved, lost all my posts, that one started to fail, moved again, lost all my posts. It can be tedious. And I'm a techie.
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@hfinyow @taylorlorenz I consider this to be the biggest hindrance to adoption. The decentralized nature of it is its biggest asset and its biggest deficit. It took me weeks to get "accepted" to a server. I tried several and got nowhere. I finally found one, didn't work out, moved, lost all my posts, that one started to fail, moved again, lost all my posts. It can be tedious. And I'm a techie.
@hfinyow @taylorlorenz Oh, and each move makes you a newbie. I've been here for years, but it looks like less than a year.
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@log @bovaz @aurochs @futurebird @Phosphenes My definition of advertising is paid speech: one party pays or otherwise compensates another to say or relay a message they otherwise wouldn't have, usually to people who didn't want to hear it.
Telling your own audience who chose to be your audience about things they can buy from you isn't advertising. Nor is sharing something you like that you're not getting paid to share, to help someone whose work you like.
@dalias @bovaz @aurochs @futurebird @Phosphenes My use of language has "advertising" as the general category of communicating about a product or service offered for sale, and "marketing" as a subcategory of advertising done for hire by another person less involved in the production of the goods or provisioning of the services. Whenever I have found advertising to be objectionable, anecdotally it has always been a professional marketer's services at fault.
