Vim's lead maintainer has fully lost his goddamn mind
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@f4grx @AndrewRadev I have a radical opinion that every over 45 should be provided an apartment, a latest game console with a subscription, and a lifetime food and beer supply, and banned from working. For exactly this reason.
@remove_huilo @f4grx @AndrewRadev trouble is all modern video games suck, they were much better back in our day.
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@cuboci @AndrewRadev I wish I had the patience left to be so charitable, but every project I've seen which has used LLMs in this fashion has eventually accepted PRs with glaring security holes.
Even if they're doing their best under difficult circumstances, it's still an unacceptable risk in my perspective, and I'm going to have to start seriously considering alternatives even if I don't switch immediately.
So, perhaps that slow death has already begun
@ansuz @AndrewRadev What can I say, I'm an optimist at heart
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@steko @AndrewRadev My impression was that they use "AI assisted" code analysers that are rather a different technology from the slop parrots being used here in vim. Daniel has a firm (and negative) opinion about slop for multiple reasons, IIRC.
@phl @steko @AndrewRadev Came here to say that "AI slop in curl" is him the maintainer complaining about people using LLM to find bugs
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Vim's lead maintainer has fully lost his goddamn mind
@AndrewRadev I assume helix would serve as a good vim replacement?
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@phl @steko @AndrewRadev Came here to say that "AI slop in curl" is him the maintainer complaining about people using LLM to find bugs
@leonardof @phl @AndrewRadev "Copilot started reviewing on behalf of bagder" is what had me worried https://github.com/curl/curl/pull/20793
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@AndrewRadev which means @neovim is tainted as well because it regularly pulls changes from Vim. I'm not sure if someone in the Neovim team uses LLMs as well, they probably do.
@ayushnix @AndrewRadev Some do. This repo was created by a Neovim maintainer: https://github.com/famiu/llm_conversation. Another maintainer has an OpenCode agent config in their dotfiles: https://github.com/dundargoc/justin/blob/master/.config/opencode/AGENTS.md. Another is also the maintainer of a Neovim Copilot plugin: https://github.com/folke/sidekick.nvim. I'm sure there are many more, I only looked at a few.
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@f4grx @AndrewRadev I have a radical opinion that every over 45 should be provided an apartment, a latest game console with a subscription, and a lifetime food and beer supply, and banned from working. For exactly this reason.
@remove_huilo @f4grx @AndrewRadev yeah I really get the feeling that this movement is shaped by people who hate programming. They're probably not the ones who should decide what happens to young computer people.
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@ayushnix @AndrewRadev Some do. This repo was created by a Neovim maintainer: https://github.com/famiu/llm_conversation. Another maintainer has an OpenCode agent config in their dotfiles: https://github.com/dundargoc/justin/blob/master/.config/opencode/AGENTS.md. Another is also the maintainer of a Neovim Copilot plugin: https://github.com/folke/sidekick.nvim. I'm sure there are many more, I only looked at a few.
- Official "GenAI-related features" issue: https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues/32084
- "AI-assisted" label for (known) AI-assisted PRs: https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues?q=label%3A%22AI%20assisted%20%F0%9F%A4%96%22
- Lead developer casually posting image slop, proudly stating he was too lazy to edit an obvious error: https://hachyderm.io/@AndrewRadev/114799760372757991 -
- Official "GenAI-related features" issue: https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues/32084
- "AI-assisted" label for (known) AI-assisted PRs: https://github.com/neovim/neovim/issues?q=label%3A%22AI%20assisted%20%F0%9F%A4%96%22
- Lead developer casually posting image slop, proudly stating he was too lazy to edit an obvious error: https://hachyderm.io/@AndrewRadev/114799760372757991@AndrewRadev @ayushnix yikes! I guess it's time I think about using another editor
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@root @cuboci @AndrewRadev sorry, didn't realize we were doing a "wrong answers only" thread
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@f4grx @AndrewRadev I have a radical opinion that every over 45 should be provided an apartment, a latest game console with a subscription, and a lifetime food and beer supply, and banned from working. For exactly this reason.
@remove_huilo @f4grx @AndrewRadev I'd take that deal on the condition you gave me all the abandoned legacy FORTRAN code that still has technical value and leave me to refactor it into something that can go another 40 years eithout maintenance. No AI, just a decent IDE, and time. I find that work intensely satisfying and relaxing; by all appearances it has no economic value.
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@AndrewRadev @normalmode It actually is the reason I've switched back from Neovim after years.
Now I need to reconsider mu editor, the main building block of my work and one of the biggest ones in my private life... So sad.
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@AndrewRadev Is neovim better in this regard?
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This is in a PR where Shougo, another long-time contributor, communicates entirely in walls of unparseable AI slop text: https://github.com/vim/vim/pull/19413
What a pathetic state after decades of active, thoughtful work. "I asked the chatbot how to write this code", "Well, I asked my chatbot, and "he" doesn't like it". What a fucking embarrassment.
@AndrewRadev Look at how productive it's making everyone!
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@remove_huilo @f4grx @AndrewRadev trouble is all modern video games suck, they were much better back in our day.
@DrHyde @remove_huilo @f4grx @AndrewRadev In other news, the developers of Dysmantle have released a new game into early access: Dysplaced https://www.10tons.com/game/dysplaced/
Dysmantle is incredibly satisfying with fantastic audio design and a very cathartic SMASH ALL THE THINGS theme.
INFRA is from a few years ago but it's a masterwork in environmental storytelling with incredibly deep lore and an ARG that remains unsolved - think of it as a civil engineering murder mystery for a nation's infrastructure. The developer's current game (Obenseuer) is bleak and hilariously awful - a top-notch Finland Simulator that rapidly goes sideways into the supernatural, extending the lore of INFRA. Warning: like malört, Obenseuer is an acquired taste.
NORCO is really unique and haunting, especially if you've ever spent time in the industrial corridors of southern Louisiana.
There are some real gems out there but finding them seems like a full time job.
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Vim's lead maintainer has fully lost his goddamn mind
@AndrewRadev “He?” WTF?
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@AndrewRadev wow this PR is truly painful to read. it feels like these social networks made for AIs to talk to each other. I don’t mind AI writing code for you, but you gotta take ownership over the ideas, you can’t just point a finger and say it this or that, you gotta understand it and own it. You posted it online, under your name, not the AI’s.
@eljojo @AndrewRadev "I don’t mind AI writing code for you"
you really should
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@eljojo @AndrewRadev "I don’t mind AI writing code for you"
you really should
@dirtside why?
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@AndrewRadev I assume helix would serve as a good vim replacement?
@kateyagi @AndrewRadev i've been enjoying it personally
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@remove_huilo @f4grx @AndrewRadev I'd take that deal on the condition you gave me all the abandoned legacy FORTRAN code that still has technical value and leave me to refactor it into something that can go another 40 years eithout maintenance. No AI, just a decent IDE, and time. I find that work intensely satisfying and relaxing; by all appearances it has no economic value.
@remove_huilo @f4grx @AndrewRadev But honestly, if people don't want to do the work, if they just don't enjoy it, they should go do something else and leave it to those who do regardless of age.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who actually want to do the work but are being railroaded into producing slop, killing their productivity, morale, and motivation.
And worse - at least in the US - health care is directly tied to employment so leaving a job can literally be lethal. It's not a small thing to just walk away from a shiity job when your housing and health care are tied to it. We won't get into how absolutely psychotic, sociopathic, hateful, and broken the software development hiring process is. No sane person would voluntarily subject themselves to such a degrading miserable process.
I don't think age has a lot to do with it - the whole industry is burned out, demoralized, and fed up with SV techbros and oligarchs that keep demanding more growth and higher velocity while slashing staff and shoving more shit like AI down the pipe.
Sadly, a lot of people are so ground down that they use AI as a coping mechanism - nobody cares about code quality, caring and quality are liabilities that keep them from clearing their ticket queue, so their best chance of avoiding the next round of layoffs and thus keeping their home and insulin supply is to sluice out code to keep their KPIs up. It's a race to the bottom but if you're really burned out you may be incapable of caring.
I don't have a good solution. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight this bullshit tooth and nail and make it as difficult and costly and unpleasant costly to replace professionals with shitty expensive robots run by TESCREAL cultists.
