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  3. open source software developers are getting fed up and are finally recognizing that they can just fucking leave.

open source software developers are getting fed up and are finally recognizing that they can just fucking leave.

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  • lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL lianna@micro.webgarden.click

    @chirpbirb To be fair, making an at least somewhat functional plugin crash on some versions just because you don't officially support them is quite hostile and practically malware.

    Of course they can maintain whatever versions they want, and the other guy is a dick, but deliberately making it crash when users use it "wrong" is quite toxic. Especially for something as essential as a text editor. Livelihoods could be at stake 

    gsuberland@chaos.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
    gsuberland@chaos.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
    gsuberland@chaos.social
    wrote last edited by
    #19

    @lianna @chirpbirb

    > practically malware

    can we please stop saying this. it's patently not true and just waters down the term "malware" to the point where it's useless. there are other terms you can use.

    yuvalne@433.worldY slyborg@vmst.ioS 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • raven667@hachyderm.ioR raven667@hachyderm.io

      @alice @lunareclipse @chirpbirb huh, funny coincidence in timeline https://s3kshun8.games/blog/flatpak-won/

      alice@mk.nyaa.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
      alice@mk.nyaa.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
      alice@mk.nyaa.place
      wrote last edited by
      #20

      @raven667@hachyderm.io that's a pretty good writeup

      i feel bad for the person who wrote it because of the kind of replies they will get

      alice@mk.nyaa.placeA 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • chirpbirb@meow.socialC chirpbirb@meow.social

        open source software developers are getting fed up and are finally recognizing that they can just fucking leave.

        • the owner of nvim-treesitter gets a really shitty comment from a user saying that the update to a required version broke their workflow
        • the owner replies saying "hey just pin what you need instead of mainlining it if you need this for an older version"
        • the shitty user replies back saying "go switch to something that doesn't require interacting with people"
        • the owner says "OK." and ARCHIVES THE REPO

        Link Preview Image
        Why there are no releases? · nvim-treesitter/nvim-treesitter · Discussion #8627

        Why there are no releases?

        favicon

        GitHub (github.com)

        like, holy shit, what a power move.

        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
        gloriouscow@oldbytes.spaceG This user is from outside of this forum
        gloriouscow@oldbytes.space
        wrote last edited by
        #21

        @chirpbirb based

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • alice@mk.nyaa.placeA alice@mk.nyaa.place

          @raven667@hachyderm.io that's a pretty good writeup

          i feel bad for the person who wrote it because of the kind of replies they will get

          alice@mk.nyaa.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
          alice@mk.nyaa.placeA This user is from outside of this forum
          alice@mk.nyaa.place
          wrote last edited by
          #22

          @raven667@hachyderm.io what i hate the most about this situaton is - a lot of the people the article is talking about are perfectly reasonable people... as long as linux is not mentioned

          like - as a developer who is similarly focused on making a usable app development platform, I'm more familiar with that kind of people than I'd like to

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • gsuberland@chaos.socialG gsuberland@chaos.social

            @lianna @chirpbirb

            > practically malware

            can we please stop saying this. it's patently not true and just waters down the term "malware" to the point where it's useless. there are other terms you can use.

            yuvalne@433.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
            yuvalne@433.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
            yuvalne@433.world
            wrote last edited by
            #23

            @gsuberland @lianna @chirpbirb
            gotta love it when the comments just prove the maintainer right...

            lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • gsuberland@chaos.socialG gsuberland@chaos.social

              @lianna @chirpbirb

              > practically malware

              can we please stop saying this. it's patently not true and just waters down the term "malware" to the point where it's useless. there are other terms you can use.

              slyborg@vmst.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
              slyborg@vmst.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
              slyborg@vmst.io
              wrote last edited by
              #24

              @gsuberland @lianna @chirpbirb ‘literally Hitler’

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • chirpbirb@meow.socialC chirpbirb@meow.social

                open source software developers are getting fed up and are finally recognizing that they can just fucking leave.

                • the owner of nvim-treesitter gets a really shitty comment from a user saying that the update to a required version broke their workflow
                • the owner replies saying "hey just pin what you need instead of mainlining it if you need this for an older version"
                • the shitty user replies back saying "go switch to something that doesn't require interacting with people"
                • the owner says "OK." and ARCHIVES THE REPO

                Link Preview Image
                Why there are no releases? · nvim-treesitter/nvim-treesitter · Discussion #8627

                Why there are no releases?

                favicon

                GitHub (github.com)

                like, holy shit, what a power move.

                sheogorath@microblog.shivering-isles.comS This user is from outside of this forum
                sheogorath@microblog.shivering-isles.comS This user is from outside of this forum
                sheogorath@microblog.shivering-isles.com
                wrote last edited by
                #25

                @chirpbirb wow, that's almost acting like an adult.

                Of course, you have this power and of course you can drop the ball like this, but it doesn't help anyone.

                That "power move" is a move you get to make once, maybe twice in your life. Rage quitting a project because one guy asks for it, isn't really building confidence in you.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL lianna@micro.webgarden.click

                  @chirpbirb To be fair, making an at least somewhat functional plugin crash on some versions just because you don't officially support them is quite hostile and practically malware.

                  Of course they can maintain whatever versions they want, and the other guy is a dick, but deliberately making it crash when users use it "wrong" is quite toxic. Especially for something as essential as a text editor. Livelihoods could be at stake 

                  drbrain@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                  drbrain@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                  drbrain@mastodon.social
                  wrote last edited by
                  #26

                  @lianna @chirpbirb as an eight year maintainer of a packaging tool for a popular programming language there is no fully acceptable way to deprecate features. Someone will loudly, annoyingly complain no matter what path is chosen. From my multiple personal experiences attempting this I will never fault a maintainer’s choice

                  lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • lunareclipse@snug.moeL lunareclipse@snug.moe

                    @chirpbirb damn maybe people will finally start not taking shit for granted

                    cybersaloperie@woof.techC This user is from outside of this forum
                    cybersaloperie@woof.techC This user is from outside of this forum
                    cybersaloperie@woof.tech
                    wrote last edited by
                    #27

                    @lunareclipse @chirpbirb yeah, as stated in the fucking license, maintainers don’t owe anything to anyone

                    Some months ago someone was trying to force me to accept their PR, I told multiple times that I will review it anytime soon when I have some energy again

                    They was still pushy, poking me every couple of weeks, sucking my energy like a vampire

                    So I took my distance to not suffer and now we’re 9 months later and I don’t give a fuck and will return when I’ll be ready 🤷‍♀️

                    cybersaloperie@woof.techC 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • yuvalne@433.worldY yuvalne@433.world

                      @gsuberland @lianna @chirpbirb
                      gotta love it when the comments just prove the maintainer right...

                      lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL This user is from outside of this forum
                      lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL This user is from outside of this forum
                      lianna@micro.webgarden.click
                      wrote last edited by
                      #28

                      @Yuvalne @gsuberland @chirpbirb I guess making people's setups crash if you don't like their software is now completely acceptable in Mastodon reply-guy land. what a wonderful eternal september we're having on fedi

                      yuvalne@433.worldY 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • cybersaloperie@woof.techC cybersaloperie@woof.tech

                        @lunareclipse @chirpbirb yeah, as stated in the fucking license, maintainers don’t owe anything to anyone

                        Some months ago someone was trying to force me to accept their PR, I told multiple times that I will review it anytime soon when I have some energy again

                        They was still pushy, poking me every couple of weeks, sucking my energy like a vampire

                        So I took my distance to not suffer and now we’re 9 months later and I don’t give a fuck and will return when I’ll be ready 🤷‍♀️

                        cybersaloperie@woof.techC This user is from outside of this forum
                        cybersaloperie@woof.techC This user is from outside of this forum
                        cybersaloperie@woof.tech
                        wrote last edited by
                        #29

                        @lunareclipse @chirpbirb I’m so pissed out of people acting like I am at their complete disposal that my latest works are using this license where the only condition is that there is absolutely no warranty in any way

                        > Usage of the works is permitted provided that this instrument is retained with the works, so that any entity that uses the works is notified of this instrument.
                        > DISCLAIMER: THE WORKS ARE WITHOUT WARRANTY.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • drbrain@mastodon.socialD drbrain@mastodon.social

                          @lianna @chirpbirb as an eight year maintainer of a packaging tool for a popular programming language there is no fully acceptable way to deprecate features. Someone will loudly, annoyingly complain no matter what path is chosen. From my multiple personal experiences attempting this I will never fault a maintainer’s choice

                          lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL This user is from outside of this forum
                          lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL This user is from outside of this forum
                          lianna@micro.webgarden.click
                          wrote last edited by
                          #30

                          @drbrain @chirpbirb I mean, not going ahead actively putting effort into implementing sabotage features to crash setups is pretty easy. The ideal – if not perfect – solution would probably have been a deprecation warning and that's it.

                          drbrain@mastodon.socialD 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL This user is from outside of this forum
                            lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL This user is from outside of this forum
                            lianna@micro.webgarden.click
                            wrote last edited by
                            #31

                            @gsuberland @chirpbirb Malware is defined by software with unwanted, unexpected, malicious behaviour. Not every piece of malware needs to result in data breaches or something serious to be malware. Even a jumpscare screensaver is malware per definition.

                            Intentionally crashing your text editor if the maintainer is upset at your personal setup is pretty squarely in malware territory.

                            vampirdaddy@chaos.socialV 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • chirpbirb@meow.socialC chirpbirb@meow.social

                              open source software developers are getting fed up and are finally recognizing that they can just fucking leave.

                              • the owner of nvim-treesitter gets a really shitty comment from a user saying that the update to a required version broke their workflow
                              • the owner replies saying "hey just pin what you need instead of mainlining it if you need this for an older version"
                              • the shitty user replies back saying "go switch to something that doesn't require interacting with people"
                              • the owner says "OK." and ARCHIVES THE REPO

                              Link Preview Image
                              Why there are no releases? · nvim-treesitter/nvim-treesitter · Discussion #8627

                              Why there are no releases?

                              favicon

                              GitHub (github.com)

                              like, holy shit, what a power move.

                              flammableengineering@app.wafrn.netF This user is from outside of this forum
                              flammableengineering@app.wafrn.netF This user is from outside of this forum
                              flammableengineering@app.wafrn.net
                              wrote last edited by
                              #32

                              @chirpbirb@meow.social

                              This is funny as hell but I think the right move would have been to ban the shitty user

                              yuvalne@433.worldY 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL lianna@micro.webgarden.click

                                @drbrain @chirpbirb I mean, not going ahead actively putting effort into implementing sabotage features to crash setups is pretty easy. The ideal – if not perfect – solution would probably have been a deprecation warning and that's it.

                                drbrain@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                drbrain@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                drbrain@mastodon.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #33

                                @lianna @chirpbirb warnings gave no fewer annoyed users and, when it was time to remove the functionality, the same types of complaints that lead to nvim-treesitter being archived

                                “You were warned” did not stop them, plus I had to deal with complaints about the warning for N extra months during the warning period

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • chirpbirb@meow.socialC chirpbirb@meow.social

                                  open source software developers are getting fed up and are finally recognizing that they can just fucking leave.

                                  • the owner of nvim-treesitter gets a really shitty comment from a user saying that the update to a required version broke their workflow
                                  • the owner replies saying "hey just pin what you need instead of mainlining it if you need this for an older version"
                                  • the shitty user replies back saying "go switch to something that doesn't require interacting with people"
                                  • the owner says "OK." and ARCHIVES THE REPO

                                  Link Preview Image
                                  Why there are no releases? · nvim-treesitter/nvim-treesitter · Discussion #8627

                                  Why there are no releases?

                                  favicon

                                  GitHub (github.com)

                                  like, holy shit, what a power move.

                                  tky@hachyderm.ioT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  tky@hachyderm.ioT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  tky@hachyderm.io
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #34

                                  @chirpbirb many moons ago I got fed up with the entitlement on the Undernet irc server I ran. I walked into the “machine room” (like I said, moons) and carried the server to my desk where I repurposed it as my workstation.

                                  Petty? Yes. Childish? Kinda still was one. Satisfying? To this very day.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL lianna@micro.webgarden.click

                                    @Yuvalne @gsuberland @chirpbirb I guess making people's setups crash if you don't like their software is now completely acceptable in Mastodon reply-guy land. what a wonderful eternal september we're having on fedi

                                    yuvalne@433.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
                                    yuvalne@433.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
                                    yuvalne@433.world
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #35

                                    @lianna @gsuberland @chirpbirb
                                    step 1: make an experimental plugin an indispensable part of your workflow.
                                    step 2: ignoring the implications of step 1, use said plugin in an undocumented way.
                                    step 3: bully the maintainer into supporting your unsupported usage.
                                    step 4: ???
                                    step 5: profi– oh nvm we made the maintainer quit FOSS and now the indispensable plugin is abandonware. dang. didn't see that coming.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • lianna@micro.webgarden.clickL lianna@micro.webgarden.click

                                      @chirpbirb To be fair, making an at least somewhat functional plugin crash on some versions just because you don't officially support them is quite hostile and practically malware.

                                      Of course they can maintain whatever versions they want, and the other guy is a dick, but deliberately making it crash when users use it "wrong" is quite toxic. Especially for something as essential as a text editor. Livelihoods could be at stake 

                                      m@lgbtqia.spaceM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      m@lgbtqia.spaceM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      m@lgbtqia.space
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #36

                                      @lianna @chirpbirb

                                      SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!

                                      drwho@masto.hackers.townD 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • chirpbirb@meow.socialC chirpbirb@meow.social

                                        open source software developers are getting fed up and are finally recognizing that they can just fucking leave.

                                        • the owner of nvim-treesitter gets a really shitty comment from a user saying that the update to a required version broke their workflow
                                        • the owner replies saying "hey just pin what you need instead of mainlining it if you need this for an older version"
                                        • the shitty user replies back saying "go switch to something that doesn't require interacting with people"
                                        • the owner says "OK." and ARCHIVES THE REPO

                                        Link Preview Image
                                        Why there are no releases? · nvim-treesitter/nvim-treesitter · Discussion #8627

                                        Why there are no releases?

                                        favicon

                                        GitHub (github.com)

                                        like, holy shit, what a power move.

                                        tml@mementomori.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                                        tml@mementomori.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                                        tml@mementomori.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #37

                                        @chirpbirb I remember back when I did the port of GIMP (and thus GTK and all that it depended on) to Windows, and had a mailing list called gimpwin-users or something like that.

                                        Obviously, there were a lot of entitled users who were angry that I didn't fix their pet bugs very quickly. At around the same time, my own interest in GIMP and GTK was waning, and I had started doing full-time paid work on other open-source things (if I recall correctly). So finally some annoying arsehole pushed me over the limit and I just killed the mailing list. It was such a relief.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • sheogorath@microblog.shivering-isles.comS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          sheogorath@microblog.shivering-isles.comS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          sheogorath@microblog.shivering-isles.com
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #38

                                          @meena @chirpbirb I think you can scratch the rage in my statement and it remains true.

                                          My point is that you should make your departure from a project gracefully, if possible.

                                          Not for this guy who annoyed you, but the others who interacted with you in good faith.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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