tell me you’re a coward without telling me
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@Athena@chaosfem.tw The Rust project forbids you from using LLMs for anything you're trying to submit to the Rust project. What more do you want?
@neia I want them to not have a “and you can’t say true things about LLMs” policy, not have a section about experimental usage that is clearly trying to work the hole open wider for this garbage, minimum
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena Stupid reductive utilitarianism has been the subject of satire since Dickens at least and technophiles do it straight.
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
Information useful to people contributing to Rust. Contribute to rust-lang/rust-forge development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
@Athena Ooouch.
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
Information useful to people contributing to Rust. Contribute to rust-lang/rust-forge development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
@Athena every one of these we see has loads of positive emoji reactions on the no-ai comments and loads of negative ones on the yes-ai ones and i don't see how people can continue to just ignore the pretty clear consensus here
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena so I'm gonna actually defend jyn here for trying to get consensus despite the people stonewalling discussion despite thinking that sharing David's quote is indefensible
I wrote about that explicit quote in a blog post also: https://txt.ltdk.xyz/testing-the-limits-of-kindness/
it is cowardly to exclude those topics from discussion, but that's not cowardice on jyn's behalf, it's on the behalf of the people defending LLMs who are responsible for getting the policy merged
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@Athena so I'm gonna actually defend jyn here for trying to get consensus despite the people stonewalling discussion despite thinking that sharing David's quote is indefensible
I wrote about that explicit quote in a blog post also: https://txt.ltdk.xyz/testing-the-limits-of-kindness/
it is cowardly to exclude those topics from discussion, but that's not cowardice on jyn's behalf, it's on the behalf of the people defending LLMs who are responsible for getting the policy merged
@clarfonthey I’ll give your post a read by as far as I can see the cowardice is on the part of the rust team, as a whole
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@clarfonthey I’ll give your post a read by as far as I can see the cowardice is on the part of the rust team, as a whole
@Athena fwiw I agree with you, just, damage control atm
a large portion of the team is anti-LLM but a few key folks in charge are stonewalling discussion
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@Athena fwiw I agree with you, just, damage control atm
a large portion of the team is anti-LLM but a few key folks in charge are stonewalling discussion
@Athena also just wanted to comment here because like the discussion was annoying enough as is and while I get the desire to just jump in and call people out it is extremely unhelpful and just leads to more work for the people who are ultimately on your side and have to work with everyone else
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@Athena fwiw I agree with you, just, damage control atm
a large portion of the team is anti-LLM but a few key folks in charge are stonewalling discussion
@clarfonthey I really need to be taking more notes about who is revealing themselves to be so fucked up right now
Who else would you say, so that I can put them on my “never trust ever” list
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@clarfonthey I really need to be taking more notes about who is revealing themselves to be so fucked up right now
Who else would you say, so that I can put them on my “never trust ever” list
@Athena I've been burning enough bridges lately, I'm not going to just call people out for you here
pretty much everyone who has been blocking consensus however has publicly commented on at least one of the available policies, so, feel free to take notes if you want. I'm just not gonna burn bridges for you considering how already fucking exhausted I am trying to propose a separate policy
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@Athena also just wanted to comment here because like the discussion was annoying enough as is and while I get the desire to just jump in and call people out it is extremely unhelpful and just leads to more work for the people who are ultimately on your side and have to work with everyone else
@clarfonthey and I think you’re a coward doing fascists’ work for them
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@clarfonthey and I think you’re a coward doing fascists’ work for them
@Athena if you wanna think that, feel free, but I both have a full alternative policy which does not pull any punches and all you appear to have accomplished is locking the thread so now nobody can discuss anything in it
I just know that when someone controls the space going in and making a mess does not accomplish anything besides you getting kicked out and the janitorial staff being very annoyed, which is kinda what's happening here
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tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.Add an LLM policy for `rust-lang/rust` by jyn514 · Pull Request #1040 · rust-lang/rust-forge
Information useful to people contributing to Rust. Contribute to rust-lang/rust-forge development by creating an account on GitHub.
GitHub (github.com)
@Athena Utterly gobsmacked by the comment restrictions OP tried to set up for that PR.
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@Athena if you wanna think that, feel free, but I both have a full alternative policy which does not pull any punches and all you appear to have accomplished is locking the thread so now nobody can discuss anything in it
I just know that when someone controls the space going in and making a mess does not accomplish anything besides you getting kicked out and the janitorial staff being very annoyed, which is kinda what's happening here
@clarfonthey the rust team has demonstrated it’s gonna do what it wants and what it wants is bend over backwards to make language model addicts happy
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
Yannow I managed to find the strength not to follow “ethics don’t matter” guy to fedi to berate him but someone from that thread sure did that to berate me about being angry about it!!
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena
"we know we are putting them at risk, but these tiny child bodys fit in the small mining tunnels the best. we would loose a lot of productivity if we banned this praxis. NO ETHICS DISCUSSION PLEASE" -
@clarfonthey the rust team has demonstrated it’s gonna do what it wants and what it wants is bend over backwards to make language model addicts happy
@Athena oh yes, it has, but you underestimate how many people on the team are pissed about that and want it to change but need to be diplomatic about it so they don't lose their jobs or positions
like, the tech industry is extremely unfavorable to people who dissent to LLMs and just showing up and complaining that people aren't doing enough is putting these people in impossible positions where they agree with you but are forced to say nothing and let the fascists dunk on you because they can't be so overt about it
I've been especially frustrated lately because this has been happening to me too, but like, at least I know what the situation is and am working on changing it. again, I'm just pointing out that even though you were extremely tame in the discussion relative to what you're saying here, all you did is invite more folks to throw shit and get the discussion locked so now not even I can comment on it
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@Athena oh yes, it has, but you underestimate how many people on the team are pissed about that and want it to change but need to be diplomatic about it so they don't lose their jobs or positions
like, the tech industry is extremely unfavorable to people who dissent to LLMs and just showing up and complaining that people aren't doing enough is putting these people in impossible positions where they agree with you but are forced to say nothing and let the fascists dunk on you because they can't be so overt about it
I've been especially frustrated lately because this has been happening to me too, but like, at least I know what the situation is and am working on changing it. again, I'm just pointing out that even though you were extremely tame in the discussion relative to what you're saying here, all you did is invite more folks to throw shit and get the discussion locked so now not even I can comment on it
@clarfonthey ah yes the anti-fascists are bad because they are too loud and yelly and turn people into fascists by being annoying so anti-fascists need to shut up and play by the fascists rules, got it
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cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena
You should really pause and reconsider your thoughts when you start any argument with "instead of ethical concerns..." -
cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena Would you be willing to link this quote for me? I can't find it, but unfortunately can totally believe someone said it.
