The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation.
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@haubles I found it most fascinating that he kept talking about a "bigger tent", and didn't even engage the argument that mastodon simply is NOT a single tent, neither big nor small.
It is a campground with many tents of varying sizes, each on with own rules and community.He also completely disregards the fact that many people came to mastodon specifically to escape the relentless onslaught of AI (content and functions) being forced into literally every other platform.
@stefanie Most "bigger tent" arguments translate to "let the Nazis in".
Marginalised communities, in my admittedly limited experience, have more issues with keeping them out.
It's baffling that this take comes from someone even mildly involved with the fediverse of all places.
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RE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
@haubles Politics? AI (also politics)? Tech topic?
I like Mastodon because people post about stuff they like, not repost stuff they think is trendy.
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I don’t think that was the initial problem he “thought” he was bringing up. But it sure seemed to become one for him.
And then seemed to be incapable of not digging a deeper and deeper hole.
That’s the part that makes me think he got lost in an emotional whirlpool which sometimes seems to make people think digging in deeper is going to somehow get them to a light at the end of a tunnel.
He indeed intended for the discussion to be around people who go spew hate at others instead of just blocking/muting what they don't like - it's not the first post along those lines.
The AI-haters on Mastodon just couldn't stand that _that_ was the example given - and so they proved Scott's point beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Scott Jenson (@scottjenson@social.coop)
FOSSism · /ˈfɔːʃɪzəm/ or fawsh-iz-um · noun A militant branch of the open source movement that delights in telling absolutely anyone that 'they are doing it wrong'. One of the fundamental social problems holding the Fediverse back. Nearly always a white dude.
social.coop (social.coop)
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I used to be involved with pirate radio in my country (and still do some work for a community radio station which has both normal transmitter and online streaming).
Before streaming radio you had 0 idea how many people were listening - whilst it was possible to interact with the station via pagers and later mobile phones, many of the listeners would be young and still at family home or without much money, and until late 90s it cost a lot to call a pager or mobile phone.
But people *still* kept the stations going without "metrics" (although you would often get randoms come up to you at raves and say in person at raves that they listened to the station).- and this was the case for many creative endeavours well into the 2000s...
And a great lived example!
The entire chain of everything since Web 2.0 has been about impressions to sell to advertisers.
Advertising is the incentive chain that has created the stochastic penal colonies of centralized social media.
There is real readership here on Mastodon. It may not show as favorites, or retoots, but it's real.
Because people here don't have the guardrails shoving chum down their throats.
And I bet donation models might work.
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Scott's posts weren't about AI.
The people who want to spend their days pouring hate over AI pretend to not understand that.
@troed do you support the use of AI products and services?
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@jens @haubles Yeah. Those poor fascists and TERFs and GenAI peddlers must really feel discriminated against because there is a place where their "views" are not universally welcomed with open arms.
Is there hate on here? Sure.
Are you forced to engage with it? Absolutely not.But what they want is a system like on Facebook, where misgendering trans people is explicitly allowed, but calling a TERF a TERF gets you banned.
Or on Twitter where you can just pay your way into everyones feed.
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@troed do you support the use of AI products and services?
@jessienab Are you an AI-hater that will spew hatred in my mentions?
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RE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
@haubles I think Mastodon is anything but lukewarm to politics!
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@haubles I would be more interested in knowing whether Gargron's puppy killer post does.
@troed @haubles You mean this one? https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/116352812942715569
You know he’s not actually talking about killing puppies, right? It’s just an example of why you don’t need both sides represented.
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@troed @haubles You mean this one? https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/116352812942715569
You know he’s not actually talking about killing puppies, right? It’s just an example of why you don’t need both sides represented.
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He indeed intended for the discussion to be around people who go spew hate at others instead of just blocking/muting what they don't like - it's not the first post along those lines.
The AI-haters on Mastodon just couldn't stand that _that_ was the example given - and so they proved Scott's point beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Scott Jenson (@scottjenson@social.coop)
FOSSism · /ˈfɔːʃɪzəm/ or fawsh-iz-um · noun A militant branch of the open source movement that delights in telling absolutely anyone that 'they are doing it wrong'. One of the fundamental social problems holding the Fediverse back. Nearly always a white dude.
social.coop (social.coop)
@troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
The majority of the hate came from people saying I wanted more AI in Mastodon, or I was upset AI wasn't better treated (or whatever) which was exactly NOT what I wanted. I was using AI as an example of intolerance and the discussion became all about AI. (or that "tolerance lets in the nazis")I'll totally own that my initial post was too vague and made too broad of a point. I'm not going to pretend I was perfect. But if someone started saying you wanted to let nazi's into mastodon, wouldn't you feel compelled to say "uh, no?"
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RE: https://social.coop/@scottjenson/116352522288234148
The views expressed by Scott in this thread do not reflect the opinions of the Mastodon core team or organisation. We're addressing this internally. I'm sorry everyone
@haubles I would have never guessed the weirdest take on Mastodon habits/tendencies would come from someone so close to the project
I was this close to replying yesterday but refrained because... Where do I begin. -
@haubles I would have never guessed the weirdest take on Mastodon habits/tendencies would come from someone so close to the project
I was this close to replying yesterday but refrained because... Where do I begin.@haubles Also, loved this:
https://beige.party/@maxleibman/116363750389579827 -
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@troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
The majority of the hate came from people saying I wanted more AI in Mastodon, or I was upset AI wasn't better treated (or whatever) which was exactly NOT what I wanted. I was using AI as an example of intolerance and the discussion became all about AI. (or that "tolerance lets in the nazis")I'll totally own that my initial post was too vague and made too broad of a point. I'm not going to pretend I was perfect. But if someone started saying you wanted to let nazi's into mastodon, wouldn't you feel compelled to say "uh, no?"
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@troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
The majority of the hate came from people saying I wanted more AI in Mastodon, or I was upset AI wasn't better treated (or whatever) which was exactly NOT what I wanted. I was using AI as an example of intolerance and the discussion became all about AI. (or that "tolerance lets in the nazis")I'll totally own that my initial post was too vague and made too broad of a point. I'm not going to pretend I was perfect. But if someone started saying you wanted to let nazi's into mastodon, wouldn't you feel compelled to say "uh, no?"
@scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
Perhaps you used a very, very bad example since genAI is a highly political issue that ppl feel very strongly about. -
@scottjenson @troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
Perhaps you used a very, very bad example since genAI is a highly political issue that ppl feel very strongly about. -
And a great lived example!
The entire chain of everything since Web 2.0 has been about impressions to sell to advertisers.
Advertising is the incentive chain that has created the stochastic penal colonies of centralized social media.
There is real readership here on Mastodon. It may not show as favorites, or retoots, but it's real.
Because people here don't have the guardrails shoving chum down their throats.
And I bet donation models might work.
This seems pertinent. This is not far from what I was writing about.
Some are intent on changing the fediverse to attract a model...
That doesn't exist here.
But we have readership here...
That is here because we reject the model, either directly or indirectly.
Re-Imagining Instead of Replacing - KnowProSE.com
When I read “Almost Two-Thirds of Europeans Back Replacing US Tech, Poll Finds,” it caught my attention.
KnowProSE.com (knowprose.com)
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@troed @stepheneb @lutindiscret
The majority of the hate came from people saying I wanted more AI in Mastodon, or I was upset AI wasn't better treated (or whatever) which was exactly NOT what I wanted. I was using AI as an example of intolerance and the discussion became all about AI. (or that "tolerance lets in the nazis")I'll totally own that my initial post was too vague and made too broad of a point. I'm not going to pretend I was perfect. But if someone started saying you wanted to let nazi's into mastodon, wouldn't you feel compelled to say "uh, no?"
Your first post was confusing. You included a screenshot of a post by @carnage4life from Jan 5 and said: “but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!”
Why didn’t you quote post that? There was no link to Dare’s original post. I assume there was a thread because in that first post he didn’t seem to be saying anything terribly related to your post.
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Your first post was confusing. You included a screenshot of a post by @carnage4life from Jan 5 and said: “but we'd *like* journalists to be here right? They aren't coming with examples like this!”
Why didn’t you quote post that? There was no link to Dare’s original post. I assume there was a thread because in that first post he didn’t seem to be saying anything terribly related to your post.
@stepheneb @troed @lutindiscret My post was confusing. I'm trying to own that. Why didn't I quote post it? I found it on Blusky I think and just screenshot it. Would a link have been better? Of course.
