consider: linux

[kyle_pegasus@scalie.club]

@soc @zzt @rootwyrm Wayland and GTK, Gnome and systemd.

Wayland kills all small desktop environments and independent window managers, funneling everyone towards Gnome, GTK forces environment-agnostic applications to become gnome specific applications via libadwaita, systemd absorbs every key service running off screen.

the end goal is basically that linux becomes an IBM controlled monolith that you're allowed to look at source code to, if you really really want

[europlus@social.europlus.zone]

@rootwyrm @zzt @davidgerard is NTP going to be a hard requirement, now…?

[bovaz@misskey.social]

@rootwyrm@weird.autos @zzt@mas.to question out of my own ignorance, if you don't mind.
Several distributions/forks are European, so if the EU were to (exceptionally) say "no thanks" to having age checks at the os level, those may be able to stay vaguely sane (at least on this topic), right? Or the distros are so interrelated that once some start caving in, they are all fucked?

[soc@chaos.social]

@kyle_pegasus @zzt @rootwyrm Talking to "fans" of these technologies is so fucking infuriating.

Nobody denies that the previous tech stack had problems ... but Wayland, Systemd, Flatpak and so on are not the solutions!

[kyle_pegasus@scalie.club]

@soc @zzt @rootwyrm Wayland pisses me off especially because it's "policy, not mechanism", and the policy is "no you can't"

[navi@social.vlhl.dev]

@kyle_pegasus @soc @zzt @rootwyrm

> Wayland kills all small desktop environments and independent window managers

that's just not true

there is wlroots, smithey, and now there is river too which is even simpler than those libraries

[ada@zoner.work]

@navi@social.vlhl.dev @zzt@mas.to @soc@chaos.social @rootwyrm@weird.autos @kyle_pegasus@scalie.club smithay

[navi@social.vlhl.dev]

@ada @zzt @soc @rootwyrm @kyle_pegasus (added it on an edit)

[ada@zoner.work]

@navi@social.vlhl.dev @zzt@mas.to @soc@chaos.social @rootwyrm@weird.autos @kyle_pegasus@scalie.club there's also canonical's mir; weston is also used for embedded/automotive systems apparently?

if you look deep you'll find all sorts of wlroots inspired projects

so i don't think wayland is "too complex" that it kills small / indie compositors, even if wlroots were to be archived randomly.

[scien@social.linux.pizza]

@kyle_pegasus @soc @zzt @rootwyrm What does wayland do to kill small DEs? I follow a dev who on their lonesome develops one: Niri. Are we talking about existing small projects, or is there some nuance of wayland that causes development issues I dont understand?

Afaik there are two high quality bases for wayland compositors: wlroots and smithay. Niri uses smithay.