Complete this sentence:
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Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion.
To learn how #fedizens actually *experience* this here fediverse. A #fediverse which results from them tying their apps together, to hopefully get more than the sum of individual parts. By means of facilitating #interoperability, technically speaking. But it involves more than getting that feature across the wire to the next app.
There's exists a clear gap between #sociosphere and #technosphere, where the latter must serve the former to bring real solutions. Otherwise it is all apps and not much seamless social fabric to navigate. No peopleverse anywhere in sight. Just apps and users of them.
The apps see great success, and I enjoy their use a lot. But I don't see a future for the app-centric fediverse where it comes to providing mankind the future of #SocialNetworking.
🫧 socialcoding.. (@smallcircles@social.coop)
#ThoughtProvoker :blobhyperthink: The current fediverse is an evolutionary dead-end for 2 reasons: 1. It has painted itself in a small niche of decentralizing typical social media use cases, by means of post-facto interop and the introduction of protocol decay. 2. Lacking a proper grassroots standardization process, and with the primary mechanism for fediverse extension being only post-facto interoperability, there is no way out. Congratulations to the early adopters, who managed to "cross the chasm" with their own app platforms. It took true grit to become deep #ActivityPub experts, and plug holes needed for your app, but you have made it. Post-facto interop works in your favor now. You are unrestrained to productively add more features in your app, and put them on the fedi wire for others to deal with. To avoid fedi to become less and less attractive to newcomers, we must now consider: “Why do we want to grow the open social web, and for whom?” -- @ben@werd.social http://coding.social/blog/shared-ownership/
social.coop (social.coop)
@smallcircles I experience the fedi as network of cafés with shared seating, or a vast food court with characters and conversations galore.
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Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion.
To learn how #fedizens actually *experience* this here fediverse. A #fediverse which results from them tying their apps together, to hopefully get more than the sum of individual parts. By means of facilitating #interoperability, technically speaking. But it involves more than getting that feature across the wire to the next app.
There's exists a clear gap between #sociosphere and #technosphere, where the latter must serve the former to bring real solutions. Otherwise it is all apps and not much seamless social fabric to navigate. No peopleverse anywhere in sight. Just apps and users of them.
The apps see great success, and I enjoy their use a lot. But I don't see a future for the app-centric fediverse where it comes to providing mankind the future of #SocialNetworking.
🫧 socialcoding.. (@smallcircles@social.coop)
#ThoughtProvoker :blobhyperthink: The current fediverse is an evolutionary dead-end for 2 reasons: 1. It has painted itself in a small niche of decentralizing typical social media use cases, by means of post-facto interop and the introduction of protocol decay. 2. Lacking a proper grassroots standardization process, and with the primary mechanism for fediverse extension being only post-facto interoperability, there is no way out. Congratulations to the early adopters, who managed to "cross the chasm" with their own app platforms. It took true grit to become deep #ActivityPub experts, and plug holes needed for your app, but you have made it. Post-facto interop works in your favor now. You are unrestrained to productively add more features in your app, and put them on the fedi wire for others to deal with. To avoid fedi to become less and less attractive to newcomers, we must now consider: “Why do we want to grow the open social web, and for whom?” -- @ben@werd.social http://coding.social/blog/shared-ownership/
social.coop (social.coop)
@smallcircles an app as a doorway to something.
How do you see the the people verse, within ans beyond the app paradigm? -
Within this multitude different folks have different needs and desires, some are testing the waters, some are regulars.
Even the impulse for networked sociality ebbs and flows.
@smallcircles@django very much so. I particularly like your last observation, thank you.
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@smallcircles an app as a doorway to something.
How do you see the the people verse, within ans beyond the app paradigm?In a technical sense constituting a shift towards a fediverse of apps and services.
In a social sense as inter-connected spaces that are open for people to explore, collaborate, cocreate, and do all the things we do offline to the extent we can do them online too, plus all the extra's that remote connection by technological means have to offer.
But that is an exploratory design area. A vast space hardly explored. This is where Social experience design focuses. See the diagram at https://coding.social where SX broadens horizons by taking a more holistic approach (actually utterly holistic and boundless in scope, as SX scales from personal to societal levels).
What #SX envisions is a peopleverse. A hypothetical place-to-be in the future where our online and offline worlds are seamlessly intertwined and in services of our day to day activities and human needs.
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Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion.
To learn how #fedizens actually *experience* this here fediverse. A #fediverse which results from them tying their apps together, to hopefully get more than the sum of individual parts. By means of facilitating #interoperability, technically speaking. But it involves more than getting that feature across the wire to the next app.
There's exists a clear gap between #sociosphere and #technosphere, where the latter must serve the former to bring real solutions. Otherwise it is all apps and not much seamless social fabric to navigate. No peopleverse anywhere in sight. Just apps and users of them.
The apps see great success, and I enjoy their use a lot. But I don't see a future for the app-centric fediverse where it comes to providing mankind the future of #SocialNetworking.
🫧 socialcoding.. (@smallcircles@social.coop)
#ThoughtProvoker :blobhyperthink: The current fediverse is an evolutionary dead-end for 2 reasons: 1. It has painted itself in a small niche of decentralizing typical social media use cases, by means of post-facto interop and the introduction of protocol decay. 2. Lacking a proper grassroots standardization process, and with the primary mechanism for fediverse extension being only post-facto interoperability, there is no way out. Congratulations to the early adopters, who managed to "cross the chasm" with their own app platforms. It took true grit to become deep #ActivityPub experts, and plug holes needed for your app, but you have made it. Post-facto interop works in your favor now. You are unrestrained to productively add more features in your app, and put them on the fedi wire for others to deal with. To avoid fedi to become less and less attractive to newcomers, we must now consider: “Why do we want to grow the open social web, and for whom?” -- @ben@werd.social http://coding.social/blog/shared-ownership/
social.coop (social.coop)
This is just me note-taking and cross-referencing.. weaving in public
Gap between socio and technosphere
Adding a marker to this poll on how people experience the fediverse, with absolutely delightful outcome and responses, but also showing the huge gap to the developer community who seem to be lost in tech and their own ap…
Discuss Social Coding (discuss.coding.social)
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Complete this sentence:
"I experience #fediverse as a .."
@smallcircles I was going to answer a cozy village after seeing how crazy a place like BlueSky is whenever emotions run hot, but then I realized that effect is exactly the opposite of a cozy village.
The best and worst part of a cozy village is that you know everyone, but you can't get away from them so the limited diversity means you're always stuck on the same things. If you don't enjoy those exact same things you either keep to yourself or you leave.
In a bustling city, it takes effort to find your tribe. Even though you're in a much larger population center, your in-group can end up being far smaller than it would be in a cozy village because everyone has a much larger number of choices of groups they can belong to.
Being lost and NOT being able to quickly feel like you belong is exactly what you'd expect to experience in a bustling city.
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This is just me note-taking and cross-referencing.. weaving in public
Gap between socio and technosphere
Adding a marker to this poll on how people experience the fediverse, with absolutely delightful outcome and responses, but also showing the huge gap to the developer community who seem to be lost in tech and their own ap…
Discuss Social Coding (discuss.coding.social)
@smallcircles You have confused me no end there. Couldn't find any point in it.
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@smallcircles You have confused me no end there. Couldn't find any point in it.
Don't worry it is more a note-to-self on the forum which serves as note-taking tool. The link it includes is to the poll at the top of this thread. Other than that I have tooted all over the place on the subject matter, which is unfortunately now all dispersed and sinking in timeline history (though I kept a bunch of bookmarks).
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Complete this sentence:
"I experience #fediverse as a .."
@smallcircles international conference
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@smallcircles international conference
@jackeric I like that. It is an original take, thanks.
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Complete this sentence:
"I experience #fediverse as a .."
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Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion.
To learn how #fedizens actually *experience* this here fediverse. A #fediverse which results from them tying their apps together, to hopefully get more than the sum of individual parts. By means of facilitating #interoperability, technically speaking. But it involves more than getting that feature across the wire to the next app.
There's exists a clear gap between #sociosphere and #technosphere, where the latter must serve the former to bring real solutions. Otherwise it is all apps and not much seamless social fabric to navigate. No peopleverse anywhere in sight. Just apps and users of them.
The apps see great success, and I enjoy their use a lot. But I don't see a future for the app-centric fediverse where it comes to providing mankind the future of #SocialNetworking.
🫧 socialcoding.. (@smallcircles@social.coop)
#ThoughtProvoker :blobhyperthink: The current fediverse is an evolutionary dead-end for 2 reasons: 1. It has painted itself in a small niche of decentralizing typical social media use cases, by means of post-facto interop and the introduction of protocol decay. 2. Lacking a proper grassroots standardization process, and with the primary mechanism for fediverse extension being only post-facto interoperability, there is no way out. Congratulations to the early adopters, who managed to "cross the chasm" with their own app platforms. It took true grit to become deep #ActivityPub experts, and plug holes needed for your app, but you have made it. Post-facto interop works in your favor now. You are unrestrained to productively add more features in your app, and put them on the fedi wire for others to deal with. To avoid fedi to become less and less attractive to newcomers, we must now consider: “Why do we want to grow the open social web, and for whom?” -- @ben@werd.social http://coding.social/blog/shared-ownership/
social.coop (social.coop)
@smallcircles "Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion."
Once you've been here for a little longer you'll realise this statement isn't the case.
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Complete this sentence:
"I experience #fediverse as a .."
@smallcircles ... overlarge, international office tea kitchen. Come over when you feel like it, take a biscuit and talk to whoever happens to be around.
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@smallcircles "Even more remarkable is the near complete absence of the #ActivityPub developer community in mingling in the social side of the discussion."
Once you've been here for a little longer you'll realise this statement isn't the case.
@wordsmith perhaps. Is 2017 long enough?
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@wordsmith perhaps. Is 2017 long enough?
@smallcircles I guess I've been on the look-out for discussion by the people making things here. Owncast, Bonfire, RFF, Indie Beat Radio and TV, Fireside Fedi, Fedilab, dansup's many projects, and folk involved in AP more directly. They've all been talking about what they do and plan, and have listened or given a voice to people asking and answering questions about how the Fedi grows. There does seem to be plenty of social discussion out there.
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@smallcircles I guess I've been on the look-out for discussion by the people making things here. Owncast, Bonfire, RFF, Indie Beat Radio and TV, Fireside Fedi, Fedilab, dansup's many projects, and folk involved in AP more directly. They've all been talking about what they do and plan, and have listened or given a voice to people asking and answering questions about how the Fedi grows. There does seem to be plenty of social discussion out there.
You are certainly not wrong. And I apologize, as it is not immediately clear that my post above is against the backdrop of 2 weeks of microblogging addressing a whole range of paint points and inhibitors to a fedi that evolves to be the future of social networking. Microblogging is too fragmentary and 'context-lossy', but unfortunately the primary comms channel for the dev community.
The gist and big issue is that the current fediverse is app-centric in nature, and accepted a work method that will further that app-centricness by introducing ever more protocol decay and tech debt. The examples you gave above are app talk, turn to features, howto federate feature, tech talk, get mired in impl details. And importantly: do not catch up with standards. That is up to some poor volunteers, who see that things are going side-ways.
There are 2 fediverse forks: the promised one in the AP specs, and the one we have. There's no shared vision, and tons of misconception to deal with.
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You are certainly not wrong. And I apologize, as it is not immediately clear that my post above is against the backdrop of 2 weeks of microblogging addressing a whole range of paint points and inhibitors to a fedi that evolves to be the future of social networking. Microblogging is too fragmentary and 'context-lossy', but unfortunately the primary comms channel for the dev community.
The gist and big issue is that the current fediverse is app-centric in nature, and accepted a work method that will further that app-centricness by introducing ever more protocol decay and tech debt. The examples you gave above are app talk, turn to features, howto federate feature, tech talk, get mired in impl details. And importantly: do not catch up with standards. That is up to some poor volunteers, who see that things are going side-ways.
There are 2 fediverse forks: the promised one in the AP specs, and the one we have. There's no shared vision, and tons of misconception to deal with.
@smallcircles aha, then the apologies are mine for not considering the context before sending a reply. I guess it's more difficult to start a conversation - and for it to be seen - than to join one.
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Complete this sentence:
"I experience #fediverse as a .."
@smallcircles
Mastodon is a loose networking of occasionally like minded people who take the time to look for the tags and individuals that interest them. A community doesn't have the ability to just disassociate from problem people. -
Complete this sentence:
"I experience #fediverse as a .."
It's a neighbourhood in an old city, a chowk. I see a lot of the same folk and we look after each other. There's a river that connects us to other parts of the city, and market gardens, and hills still covered with forests. I look after an old monastery at the base of one of those hills, with a big tree in the courtyard. There's quite a large bazaar nearby and many friends have workshops and sell things there. Sometimes I go for a cycle ride to other neighbourhoods where I have colleagues or friends. Folks come by for morning rituals or just good food. Sometimes drunk twats from the business district get lost and show up here, so someone has to help them leave.
